Do you like the new asylum policy?

ricowang

All new coming boat people will be transferred to papua new guinea for processing and settlement if found as genuine refugees, it's budget neutral, and Australia would continue accepting asylum applications over sea.

This is much better than three world slogan, but might be criticized for being dodgy.

周星星1832

不满意
没用
工党can't stop the boats
坚定的支持反对党

ricowang

周星星1832 发表于 19-7-2013 17:29

                               
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不满意
没用
工党can't stop the boats

Don't know much about PNG, but if they're what called economic migrants, why should they come if they know they would end up in PNG? Especially, as some said, many of those boat people are quite rich in fact.

yping88

Couldn't care less, it's too complicated a political issue for me to shed any light on, especially I am not politically sensitive!

But it's nice to know someone is keen to speak up their mind about this nerve-wracking issue! As a resident in Australia, I sure hope there will be a reasonable solution to address it!

God bless Australia and all of those who keep truthful to it!

周星星1832

ricowang 发表于 19-7-2013 17:53

                               
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Don't know much about PNG, but if they're what called economic migrants, why should they come if t ...

我对工党的执行能力表示担心
话说回来
现在只是policy
管不管用要到执行之后才知道

浮云云艾米莉

很多船民真的是很可怜避难的

我愿意相信有钱的假冒船民是少数

碰到过一个埃及人，是11年2月埃及暴乱时移民的，他说他还是其中facebook宣传的领头人之一，结果遭到政府部门的暗杀。

碰到过一个利比亚人，跟他老婆一起逃出来的，说他真的很想念父母兄弟，但是可能再也见不到了。很难过很难过的表情

碰到过一个阿富汗司机，说他们一族因为长得像亚裔，遭到当地阿拉伯人的迫害，每天都胆战心惊。特别是担心他的儿子女儿，因为他们上下学要经过阿拉伯区，他很怕哪天就再也见不到他们了。于是倾家荡产来澳洲，天天无休息的开出租。。。

我觉得不能盲目停止船民。不能自己有好日子了就不管别人了。offshore application目前是比较折中的办法，可以接受

harvey.liu

干得好，我读书的时候 碰见个所谓的 伊拉克 难民 上学开BMW 穿ADIDAS 跑鞋 住在“难民”叔叔自己的HOUSE里面 真的看不出是哪门子难民

加拿大 保守党政府上台以来 早就是对难民 “零容忍” 坚决遣返

澳洲做的对， 那些什么公约，根本就没撒强制性，加拿大也签署过，不是照样遣返，加拿大还退出了 京都议定书撒的。我这言论和lz在另外一帖里辩论过。

那些什么人权律师，就是为了自己利益，根本不顾澳洲tax payer的利益。

还有那个垃圾green party， leader居然哭了，和天朝影帝有得一比。

就像liberal说得一样 当年老霍在的时候，发生的那个什么 什么事件一样，总理根本不顾绿党和印泥的反对，出动皇家海军，坚决的遣返。

周星星1832

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 19:06

                               
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干得好，我读书的时候 碰见个所谓的 伊拉克 难民 上学开BMW 穿ADIDAS 跑鞋 住在“难民”叔叔自己的HOUSE里面 ...

如果霍华德在哪有今天

nil

还不是花纳税人的钱。

ricowang

EmilyS 发表于 19-7-2013 18:56

                               
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很多船民真的是很可怜避难的

我愿意相信有钱的假冒船民是少数

yes, I know it's bad to the genuine asylum seekers, but you know this is the world.
If they were living such a misery life, then it would be a little bit better to be in PNG. Obviously, you could not be granted a boarding pass to advanced country simply just being living in a failed country.

ricowang

nil 发表于 19-7-2013 19:21

                               
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还不是花纳税人的钱。

budget neutral if you haven't noticed.

harvey.liu

ricowang 发表于 19-7-2013 19:54

                               
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yes, I know it's bad to the genuine asylum seekers, but you know this is the world.
If they wer ...

to an advanced country or advanced countries,

not to advanced country.

basic English rule.

你很喜欢写英语。

浮云云艾米莉

ricowang 发表于 19-7-2013 19:54

                               
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yes, I know it's bad to the genuine asylum seekers, but you know this is the world.
If they wer ...

As a founding member of the United Nations, Australia assisted in the drafting of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and is signatory to various other international treaties on the subject of Human Rights.

Therefore we do have the obligations to assist other "failed" countries.

I am not saying we are expecting to help everyone by default. But there is a lot to be done to those genuine asylum seekers. Caring for others is part of the humanity.

ricowang

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 20:01

                               
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to an advanced country or advanced countries,

not to advanced country.

of course I know this, but when I write very quick, I could not stop making mistakes like this, and this is the reason why I keep typing in english

harvey.liu

EmilyS 发表于 19-7-2013 20:06

                               
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As a founding member of the United Nations, Australia assisted in the drafting of the Universal De ...

那些所谓的 international 公约 法律 没有撒实际效力吧

那些东西要有效，必须经过 Australian parliament 的批准吧

只要澳洲两个党在这一问题上同心同德，还不是什么都可以通过，

现在为了马上的大选，工党已经变了风向标了，liberal本来就是老霍的衣钵继承者，所以要通过个什么new  bill 容易得很。

加拿大一样是common law国家 自从保守党上台以来，别说什么难民，就是合法的federal skilled migrant，28万多人，还不是一刀切了。

所以这次老陆做的对， 8年了，浪费了几百亿纳税人的钱后，知道不可维持了，所以转回老霍的政策了。

你是学法律的，你应该明白 法律就是法律 和道德无关。 这个你在foundations in Australian Law 应该学过吧

法律也是要发展的，要和整个社会相一致，consistent with the current society.

common law 发源地英国， 一样的是 tighten immigration and refugees law就是这个道理

The Australian Laws prevail the Convention.

ricowang

EmilyS 发表于 19-7-2013 20:06

                               
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As a founding member of the United Nations, Australia assisted in the drafting of the Universal De ...

Obviously, coalition should hear your voice.

As PNG people are free from fears of being politically washed out etc, I think the RRA is a kind of acceptable.

If there were no domestic political reasons, i would not enjoy hearing such a news, given that most of boat arrivals were proven to be genuine refugees.

harvey.liu

ricowang 发表于 19-7-2013 20:15

                               
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of course I know this, but when I write very quick, I could not stop making mistakes like this, an ...

典型中国式 excuse

ricowang

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 20:25

                               
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典型中国式 excuse

Doesn't matter at all, I make more mistakes when I am talking. something like, he talk, they has, however I think it doesn't bother other side, and I'm trying my best to make it correct

harvey.liu

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says asylum seekers who arrive by boat will have no chance of being settled in Australia as refugees.
:goo

澳洲给PNG公民 免签进入澳洲  澳洲帮助PNG修建大学 医院

这就是 compromise 这就是politics.

周星星1832

不到2业就白高亮了

浮云云艾米莉

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 20:19

                               
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那些所谓的 international 公约 法律 没有撒实际效力吧

那些东西要有效，必须经过 Australian parl ...

没有实际效力但是人要有诚信和humanity啊。答应的事情就应该尽力去做，答应帮助的人就应该尽力去帮

我不是从法律的角度讲这个问题的。我就是从道德的角度。作为一个国家，其道德作风影响一个国家的人。难道一个国家是可以言而不信的么

你喜欢法律的角度我们就从法律的角度来说，high court已经批准了2个asylum seeker的案子了，11年一个12年一个，common law已经开始发展人权了。发源地是英国，发展在澳洲本土

我觉得必要的check and balance是有必要的，Kevin的这个决定也是有道理的，但是一味的以打击+减少boat people为目标是不人道的。还是那句话，不能因为自己日子好了就冷漠的把别人一棍子拦在门外。应该考虑下在可持续的情况下，经济允许的情况下接纳真实的避难

浮云云艾米莉

ricowang 发表于 19-7-2013 20:22

                               
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Obviously, coalition should hear your voice.

As PNG people are free from fears of being politic ...

I think RRA is kind of acceptable too...

There are so many political and economical reasons behind the scene. Sadly, Australian Government's position is neither for the boat people or for the Australian taxpayers.

Australian politicans only care about maintaining their own power and position

ricowang

EmilyS 发表于 19-7-2013 20:39

                               
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没有实际效力但是人要有诚信和humanity啊。答应的事情就应该尽力去做，答应帮助的人就应该尽力去帮

我 ...

I believe this is an international problem, world widely, there are more genuine refugees generated than the total number can be granted with asylums in all countries every year.

if i were a genuine refugee, I would certainly try to find a quickest approach and best destination, of those available choices taking a boat to Australia must be outstanding.

Redirecting people to PNG is really cruel, if all country take such a approach, the refugee convention will very much fade out soon

International negotiation must be carried out to find a way, for example, refugee acceptance quota based on GDP etc.

harvey.liu

EmilyS 发表于 19-7-2013 20:39

                               
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没有实际效力但是人要有诚信和humanity啊。答应的事情就应该尽力去做，答应帮助的人就应该尽力去帮

我 ...

不赞同， high court 的verdict 理论上是要遵守 但是Australian parliament 可以通过立法把 common law给废掉 不要忘记了 act prevails  现在tony已经说了 这个方案好 只是认为在陆克文领导下不能work。 所以在这一问题上，澳洲两大政党是一致的，既然他们是 澳洲公民投票选出来的 执政党和最大的在野党，所以按照这个逻辑，两党的看法是代表澳洲公民的意志，这是民意！！！

不要忘记了天朝的一句话 “讲政治”

不要拿英国说事，英国保守党上台以来，就是 严格控制non-eu的 移民和 所谓难民


还有现在不是 什么日子好过 现在澳洲人日子很难过。

美国号称人权卫士，让它接受难民去，不过据统计她接受的合法难民还没 丹麦多

harvey.liu

                               
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这就是澳洲的 影帝

ricowang

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 20:58

                               
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这就是澳洲的 影帝

I could accept her words, just unrealistic to be a policy

harvey.liu

ricowang 发表于 19-7-2013 20:50

                               
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I believe this is an international problem, world widely, there are more genuine refugees genera ...

那你问问 另一个人权国家 加拿大怎么做的？？？

合法的 联邦技术移民28万 ， 加拿大议会一个立法，全部砍掉，现在还在打官司了，在联邦法院已经输了，申请者还在上诉。

加拿大对难民的态度就是 0容忍，一经发现全部遣返， 并且保守党在台上已经过了一个执政期了，加拿大选民一样选它，并且是绝对多数政府。说明他的政策是得加拿大民心的。

ricowang

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 21:09

                               
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那你问问 另一个人权国家 加拿大怎么做的？？？

合法的 联邦技术移民28万 ， 加拿大议会一个立法，全部 ...

For GSM, I don't think it's illegal for the Canada government to terminate all applications. Being a applicant, you're not promised anything.

would you please explain more on what you stated twice -- zero tolerant on refugees, I don't know this at all.

harvey.liu

http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... page%3D1&page=1

看看隔壁的发言 都是一边倒的 支持该政策

quote

"一个船民20到45万／年：
At present we spend from $200,000 to $450,000 per person per year to detain them on an indefinite basis.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-po ... .html#ixzz2ZTdA48CP
20－45万X4。5万》90亿／年"

周星星1832

harvey.liu 发表于 19-7-2013 21:13

                               
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http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=713967&extra=page%3D1&page=1

看看隔壁 ...

我抗议了