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[职业发展] 移民澳紐就是放棄技術理想等退休養老

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151#
发表于 16-10-2015 08:35:31 | 只看该作者
xq052b 发表于 15-10-2015 20:42
投资房当然是负收入的啊,就是为了退税才买的。上次老板告诉我,学院里的教授们,个个4,5套投资房,用来 ...

羡慕你住在澳大利亚,新西兰取消了投资房可以退税,不然我也想买个投资房
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152#
发表于 16-10-2015 21:52:20 | 只看该作者
看到很多楼之前有这么句话,不想直接回复以免招来争吵。

“US是讓努力勤奮者可以實現其理想,誰利害誰過得爽,澳洲/NZ是努力也賺不到大錢也沒啥目標好努力,索性當懶人還覺得佔便宜,就是這種國家的導向”

我想说,如果你勤奋努力,到哪里都会是赢家,上面这句话显然只有输家才说得出来,那就请别再标榜自己勤奋努力了。

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153#
发表于 17-10-2015 09:02:41 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 ScientificAmeri 于 17-10-2015 10:04 编辑
艾瑞克 发表于 16-10-2015 22:52
看到很多楼之前有这么句话,不想直接回复以免招来争吵。

“US是讓努力勤奮者可以實現其理想,誰利害誰過 ...


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/busine ... p;objectid=11530463

I know you are the winner! Sadly as a loser I won't compete with you guys!
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154#
发表于 17-10-2015 09:03:31 | 只看该作者
Daibaw 发表于 15-10-2015 22:31
投资房现在都是负现金流+折旧抵税,资产还是增值的(不过卖掉的话CGT也是一大笔钱)。不过现在楼市转冷这个 ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/busine ... p;objectid=11530463

Just see who benefits and who suffers, anything else I need to say?
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155#
发表于 17-10-2015 09:12:04 | 只看该作者
艾瑞克 发表于 16-10-2015 22:52
看到很多楼之前有这么句话,不想直接回复以免招来争吵。

“US是讓努力勤奮者可以實現其理想,誰利害誰過 ...

When my classmate in the US strongly persuade me not thinking about moving to NZ, I didn't think too much at the time,

Then I realized what you say is actually correct: just I didn't try my best to pursue the American dream but preferred a "easy way", consequently I deserve the plight here. It's not unfair.
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156#
发表于 17-10-2015 09:20:12 | 只看该作者
I've made up my mind: unless I die soon, I must seek a way to leave here, to a place where I can get the dignity of being an engineer.
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157#
发表于 17-10-2015 10:59:04 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 10:20
I've made up my mind: unless I die soon, I must seek a way to leave here, to a place where I can get ...


哥们,其实很简单,有梦就去追逐,不枉此生,至于成功失败,不用看那么重,重要的是享受那个追梦的过程。
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158#
发表于 17-10-2015 11:12:09 | 只看该作者
是金子
在哪儿都闪光
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159#
发表于 17-10-2015 11:26:48 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 10:03
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11530463

Just see who benef ...

By that perspective I can also argue that the Silicon Valley tech workers suffer even more from the "house price horror"

http://www.trulia.com/real_estat ... rnia/market-trends/

It's a global thing, unless you move to a dying town with no jobs.
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160#
发表于 17-10-2015 11:48:49 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 xq052b 于 17-10-2015 12:53 编辑
DDD888 发表于 16-10-2015 09:35
羡慕你住在澳大利亚,新西兰取消了投资房可以退税,不然我也想买个投资房


退税不是主要目的啊,除了折旧,其他都是要用自己的税后收入。伤敌一千,自伤八百的事情。

但是折旧部分,卖房的时候还要交税,所以理论上来讲投资房应该是零收益最好。

买投资房是为了财产增值,最起码保值,跑赢通胀。
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161#
发表于 17-10-2015 11:59:53 | 只看该作者
Daibaw 发表于 17-10-2015 12:26
By that perspective I can also argue that the Silicon Valley tech workers suffer even more from th ...

Enjoy your rent income but don't mislead others, as if AU/NZ represent the whole world:

http://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp
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162#
发表于 17-10-2015 12:00:56 | 只看该作者
ubuntuhk 发表于 17-10-2015 11:59
哥们,其实很简单,有梦就去追逐,不枉此生,至于成功失败,不用看那么重,重要的是享受那个追梦的过程 ...

I fully agree, so I'm pursuing my dream even though eventually I fail.
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163#
发表于 17-10-2015 12:50:13 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 13:00
I fully agree, so I'm pursuing my dream even though eventually I fail.


期待你继续更新追梦的过程。

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164#
发表于 17-10-2015 13:05:30 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 13:00
I fully agree, so I'm pursuing my dream even though eventually I fail.

差不多看完了你的回复,其实有很多共鸣
虽然“努力的人在哪都可以成功”这句话听起来没错
但澳洲对科技的重视程度有待改善是不争的事实

以苦力高薪而技术员低薪做例子可能会有很多人喷,说人人平等云云
但是technology advancement才是一个国家进步的源泉,
我觉得从这个角度而言,这个例子还是很合适的

希望你回到美国也好,回到中国也好,能实现自己的价值就好
澳洲做到这点难一点
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165#
发表于 17-10-2015 13:39:48 | 只看该作者
ubuntuhk 发表于 17-10-2015 13:50
期待你继续更新追梦的过程。

That might be a long-term plan, not so desperate, after all, knowing what I have obtained - I can live freely read and watch whatever information without any censorship and obviously freedom of expression, I never need to worry about the nightmare like when I was in China.

And I need to balance a timing dilemma on my status, one point is I need to meet a 5-year residency in order to replace my PRC citizenship. Move to other states earlier means, I need to remain a PRC citizenship which is a annoying burden. However the fact is that, the longer I stay here, the less competitive or less likely I will be able to move to a ideal destination country.

All in all, I chose to move out of PRC focusing on the status, rather than those in the US, who solved the 2 things (status update & career development) altogether. The price I paid for the former task turns out to be too high.

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166#
发表于 17-10-2015 13:52:20 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 ScientificAmeri 于 17-10-2015 15:24 编辑
Lopemann 发表于 17-10-2015 14:05
差不多看完了你的回复,其实有很多共鸣
虽然“努力的人在哪都可以成功”这句话听起来没错
但澳洲对科技 ...


I definitely disagree on the theory "you can succeed in anywhere if you work hard". Despite other factors, it largely depends on the suitability of the task you take. For instance, I did well in math & physics in high school but worse in chemistry, while someone else in the other way. Likewise some people can become very successful working as a communist official, but not so as a scientist.

It's hard to say which way is "fair", since the fairness itself is controversial. It ultimately depends on the stance of this society, if it's a technology-driven or not. The AU/NZ-like resource driven welfare states certainly prioritize hard labor, thus the definition of "fair" appears pretty clear. We technical people favor an environment where people can pursue and enjoy the job in a more technical depth while we never need to worry about the cost of living, which is not the case here. This point can be observed from it's immigration policy: the hard labors can gain their residency easier whereas high qualification/high-tech professionals have no advantages. It's completely different from that in Singapore/US, where the policy makers favor the latter.  

When I was in PRC, I was a middle class working on technical position, envied by many even in terms of income. But everything changed when I came to NZ, hard labors earn more than me, so do business App programmers, jobless house owners, English training school owners, property agents, Chinese-oreinted tourist guide, which confused me. And it does make sense, I myself don't think I deserve high pay, as I no longer do technical development here as I used to. The sense of value defined by this society clearly tell me I'm no more than a victim/loser here, Just as how I was laughed by those successful guys here: they own houses whose value increases more than the wage I receive everyday.

So many Chinese people here describe their happy life in this way: what a paradise, where I don't need to work but just live on the houses I've invested in.

That's obviously not the place I should stay in.
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167#
发表于 17-10-2015 14:38:58 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 Daibaw 于 17-10-2015 15:44 编辑
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 12:59
Enjoy your rent income but don't mislead others, as if AU/NZ represent the whole world:

http:// ...


What are you trying to derive from that table?

From what I see it matches my point: almost every single city with a high concentration of cool tech jobs and/or immigrant-friendly policies has a terrible property price to income ratio: Hong Kong, Taipei, Tokyo, Seoul, San Francisco, New York, Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Singapore, London, etc etc. (Sydney and Auckland is not even high in that list) You can find cheap housing in Detroit, but you don't want to live there. You can choose to find something affordable while spend 3hrs commuting to/from work, but that would also be painful.

There are a few exceptions, like Seattle and Houston (I think Greater Seattle Area is the next Silicon Valley). So if people making money from real estates is such an eyesore to you, I suggest you to try to find a high end tech job there (they both have big employers and pay very well, but not much in Semiconductor business).

Another thing if you look at the data closely: the rental return in Australia/NZ is actually quite MEDIOCRE. That's why I am against the idea that "OZ/NZ is a paradise for people doing nothing but investing in property". For most people (except those with endless pocket who can flip multiple houses in a year) in order to make the best out of the property market, one must maintain a highly paid job (which means they DO work don't do dodgy things to evade tax) so that they can benefit from the tax deduction.
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168#
发表于 17-10-2015 14:51:18 | 只看该作者
xq052b 发表于 17-10-2015 12:48
退税不是主要目的啊,除了折旧,其他都是要用自己的税后收入。伤敌一千,自伤八百的事情。

但是折旧 ...

持有超过一年CGT就50%了,所以折旧怎么都是划算的。买投资房还有一个主要目的是可以用offset账户灵活理财。毕竟房贷的利率比任何借贷都要低的多。
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169#
发表于 17-10-2015 15:01:12 | 只看该作者
Daibaw 发表于 17-10-2015 15:51
持有超过一年CGT就50%了,所以折旧怎么都是划算的。买投资房还有一个主要目的是可以用offset账户灵活理财 ...

我同意,折旧不是最优解,不过是次优解。
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170#
发表于 17-10-2015 15:14:01 | 只看该作者
Lopemann 发表于 17-10-2015 14:05
差不多看完了你的回复,其实有很多共鸣
虽然“努力的人在哪都可以成功”这句话听起来没错
但澳洲对科技 ...

澳村对科研人员的pay相对我们的欧美同行(同等资历),算不错的,research fellow 100K+,professor 200K。我们组要招一个嵌入式/硬件开发,short list里面有两个是US Post doc(EE)。

真正的问题是缺少机会,不过造成问题的原因是人少,市场小,人工成本高,同时远离世界主要经济体。所以澳村的定位从来不是经济大国啊。

就像我们成立start up,在上海招人而不是在这里,就是因为接近市场,成本相对低一点,那边更适合做产品。这里只做核心算法还有芯片。
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171#
发表于 17-10-2015 15:51:22 | 只看该作者
xq052b 发表于 17-10-2015 12:48
退税不是主要目的啊,除了折旧,其他都是要用自己的税后收入。伤敌一千,自伤八百的事情。

但是折旧 ...

总比没有退税好许多
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172#
发表于 17-10-2015 15:53:13 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 14:39
That might be a long-term plan, not so desperate, after all, knowing what I have obtained - I can  ...

我想当你在离开一个行业五年后,你将面临困难说服将要雇佣你的人让你重回本行,你说是吗?
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173#
发表于 17-10-2015 15:59:03 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 DDD888 于 17-10-2015 17:02 编辑
Daibaw 发表于 17-10-2015 15:38
What are you trying to derive from that table?

From what I see it matches my point: almost e ...


你的思路很清晰,我来新西兰的时候,没有许多人想去新西兰,想不到这些年过后,风水轮流转,新西兰成为热门的移民国家,房地产价格和澳大利亚一起排在没有跌的头几位,真是世事难料啊,我很高兴我过去作了一个好的决定,决定移民到新西兰

当然我是迫切希望房价跌回2000年的价格,如果那样的话,我就可以买一幢海边的房子啦,那夏天就可以走路到海边游泳啦,至于房价暴跌,将我现在的房子跌到即使一元钱也没关系,因为我不卖出去啦
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174#
发表于 17-10-2015 16:41:52 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 17-10-2015 16:59
你的思路很清晰,我来新西兰的时候,没有许多人想去新西兰,想不到这些年过后,风水轮流转,新西兰成为 ...

我怕NZ地震多,不然真比OZ還好一點.
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175#
发表于 17-10-2015 16:51:10 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 DDD888 于 17-10-2015 17:54 编辑
sdcmc 发表于 17-10-2015 17:41
我怕NZ地震多,不然真比OZ還好一點.


有保险啦,如果真发生的话,那我家只好搬到澳大利亚来住啦,反正纽澳是一家啦
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176#
发表于 17-10-2015 17:17:11 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 10:12
When my classmate in the US strongly persuade me not thinking about moving to NZ, I didn't think t ...

根据我的了解,如果在美国找工作移民,那个过程是非常漫长的,要经历被老板辞退,失去绿卡的可能性,过程要几年,哪里象新西兰对移民这样好,几个月就给PR啦,我拿到PR大概也就两三个月,我是很感激新西兰啦,当然住了这许多年,年年都交足了税啦
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177#
发表于 17-10-2015 17:17:11 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 DDD888 于 17-10-2015 18:20 编辑
ScientificAmeri 发表于 17-10-2015 10:12
When my classmate in the US strongly persuade me not thinking about moving to NZ, I didn't think t ...


根据我的了解,如果在美国找工作移民,那个过程是非常漫长的,要经历被老板辞退,失去绿卡的可能性,过程要几年,哪里象新西兰对移民这样好,几个月就给PR啦,我拿到PR大概也就两三个月,我是很感激新西兰啦,当然住了这许多年,年年都交足了税啦

诚实的说,我是对那些拿好PR就离开新西兰的人非常反感啦,在申请PR的时候说好是要一直住在新西兰的,结果是拿新西兰做跳板
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178#
发表于 17-10-2015 17:19:33 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 sdcmc 于 17-10-2015 18:21 编辑
DDD888 发表于 17-10-2015 17:51
有保险啦,如果真发生的话,那我家只好搬到澳大利亚来住啦,反正纽澳是一家啦


這个我也知道, 雖然日本我也待過, 可大地震還是比較可怕的自然災害之一, 但不排除將來去NZ的可能性, 纽澳一家嘛 對了,你在NZ哪裡啊?
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179#
发表于 17-10-2015 17:21:28 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 DDD888 于 17-10-2015 18:25 编辑
sdcmc 发表于 17-10-2015 18:19
這个我也知道, 不排除將來去NZ的可能性, 纽澳一家嘛  對了,你在NZ哪裡啊?


glenfield, north shore, auckland

我搬来的时候,整条街就我家是中国人,现在变成和上海的小区差不多啦,都是中国人,大家的眼光都一样,认为这里治安好,环境好啦
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180#
发表于 17-10-2015 17:23:03 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 17-10-2015 18:21
glenfield, north shore, auckland

不用這麼詳細啦, AUCKLAND就夠啦, 又不是叫你推薦买哪個區的房好.
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