FreeOZ论坛

标题: 要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧 [打印本页]

作者: mite 时间: 6-9-2006 20:34
标题: 要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
<a target=_blank href=../forum/viewthread.php?tid=674262&Ar=676089&AUpflag=1&Ap=3&Aq=1>../forum/viewthread.php?tid=674262&Ar=676089&AUpflag=1&Ap=3&Aq=1</a> 
 
看大家看法明天决定锁不锁

作者: mite 时间: 6-9-2006 20:38
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我自己看法 -- 有背不谈地域话题的论坛规则应该锁

作者: 无极 时间: 6-9-2006 21:09
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
遇上广东话题的就锁了？先把那肥猫锁了吧

作者: nngn 时间: 6-9-2006 21:10
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
lock it... 
I side with you

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 6-9-2006 21:17
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: uu 时间: 6-9-2006 21:27
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
这么无聊的贴,锁了!

作者: 晴天 时间: 6-9-2006 21:29
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
锁与不锁并不重要，重要的是FreeOZ是否倡导一种相互尊重，相互谅解的论坛精神，既然大家都来自从中国的五湖四海，既然大家都在澳洲为实现自己的目标而努力，既然FreeOZ已经成为了大家的家园，那么怎么压缩和消除那些狭隘偏见的生存空间，应该是论坛管理者思考的问题，这与言论自由无关。在这里你锁住了这个帖子，相信一定不是第一个由于这些原因而锁住的帖子，如果论坛管理者无法正视这个问题，那我相信这也绝对不是最后一个。

作者: yuba 时间: 6-9-2006 21:32
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
楼主的link给的是第三页的，看得我莫名其妙的，嗬嗬。

作者: alinaxu 时间: 6-9-2006 21:35
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
封帖子能有什么用？封住贴子能封住个别人狭隘的思想吗？

作者: 十二门徒 时间: 6-9-2006 22:43
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
不明白为什么要锁帖子呢？麦大仙你也是在自由国家混迹多年的人了，难道对这样的讨论就无法忍受了？个人认为，只要不犯法，大家爱说啥说啥，不认同可以不看，不会你锁了帖子，世界就太平了，其实了解各种不同想法也是给大家更多了解周围世界的机会，萝卜青菜各有所爱，你不爱就说不爱，走人了事，这个论坛也不是某个人或少数人的私人地界，如果没有开放自由的气氛，我想人气会越来越低落，我主张百家争鸣，百花齐放，在不违背国家法规的前提下，什么帖子都不该锁。 
另外，我觉得因为目前论坛的人气太低，这样的帖子才会引起如此关注，大家还是尽量多写多上，让论坛热闹起来，这样的帖子会自然沉没，根本没必要讨论锁不锁的问题。

作者: 阿兵 时间: 6-9-2006 22:44
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
1 先说楼主的态度，我不敢说是看了我的建议什么的，如果是，我觉得至少反映了FREEOZ的中子还是得到承认的，这是最主要的。 
2 FREEOZ 既然是个自由论坛，那么为什么不可以容忍不同的声音呢？你如果觉得某个话题你不喜欢，那么你有很多选择，A你可以表达意见反对，你可以攻击，你可以要求大家抵制这个话题。B 你可以觉得这个话题对你来说是限制级的，不去看，这个就跟澳洲政府对文艺作品分级一样，你事先就知道这里有些什么内容，不喜欢，觉得恶心，你别看就可以了。但是，你不能剥夺别人看的权利。 
3 个人觉得FREEOZ不必要搞得表面上一团和气，我完全理解zhtS 的用心，保持团结，大家开心。可是，就算是一个党派里面有不同的派别又怎么样呢（当然，非民主国家的党派不属于此类）。有争论，甚至非常激烈的争论才是好事啊。 
4 建立FREEOZ最早的目的是给大家一个交流的机会，至于交流的内容，只要合法（或者符合所在国的法律），zhts 大可以放心啊。 
一些个人意见！

作者: oranges 时间: 6-9-2006 22:52
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
大家想说啥就说,只要不违背基本的道德准则,何必一定要封住别人的嘴呢? 
本来就是一个自由的论坛,其实觉得其他的一些帖子(不是指这个贴)有些TZ说得还是挺有道理的,给斑竹大人一下子就封了,何苦呢. 
其实每个人的生活阅历和环境都不同,难免有不同的看法,如果每个人的想法都一致,这个世界将会多么的可怕...<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td><OBJECT codeBase='<a target=_blank href=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab>http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab</a>#version=4,0,2,0' classid='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000' width='48' height='48' Id='Audible62360278746'><PARAM NAME=movie VALUE='../plug-ins/audio/swf/05.swf'><param name=menu value=false><PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high><PARAM NAME=play VALUE=false><param name='wmode' value='transparent'><embed src='../plug-ins/audio/swf/05.swf' quality='high' pluginspage='<a target=_blank href=http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'>http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'</a> type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='48' height='48'></embed></OBJECT></td><td align='left' style='cursor:hand;' title='鼠标悬停播放' nowrap onclick='document.Audible62360278746.Play()'>一定要幸福喔！</td></tr></table>

作者: 136mydream 时间: 6-9-2006 23:30
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我也觉得不要锁。某些话题不得不锁是因为会对坛子的生存造成威胁，咱们大家也都很自觉的不去讨论那些敏感话题。 
但是所谓的地域评论，每个地方本来就有每个地方的差异，人的性格也会有差异，就象萝卜跟白菜的异同怎么就不能有个比较呢。你说上海北京的讨论就叫地域帖，那么中国跟澳洲的比较是不是也是地域帖，是不是也该封杀呢？ 
mite我一直非常敬重你，也深知办这样的论坛非常不易，不过在这个问题上我支持Ultiblue的看法。当然大家讨论问题时应该注意方式方法，不要太偏激和情绪化，但我想这只能是建议而不能作为规定。

作者: menson 时间: 6-9-2006 23:48
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
没有意思的争论,不说也罢。

作者: coconut 时间: 6-9-2006 23:53
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
就事论事而已,何必锁呢.说实在的,通过 MICFOX 给的连接,还是学到不少有趣的方言掌故的,大家心态平和点就好了.

作者: thewall 时间: 7-9-2006 00:46
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
... let it be ... but, be cool, and be wise ...

作者: gemei 时间: 7-9-2006 00:47
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
1 谁的地盘谁做主。讲什么民主。（俺没做什么贡献，不奢望民主）。 
2 要我投票，我反对。 
顺便建议：如果是企业经营思路，还是不锁，增加点击量。 是捐款建站，要民主，就倡议大家踊跃捐款。 找航空公司投资。

作者: armwe 时间: 7-9-2006 01:38
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我认为应该锁, 虽然有时候真理越辩越明.可是一到这种讨论地域性话题,大家都明暗有情绪,而且这种讨论和每个人的生活经历和周围环境是相关的.很容易有倾向性. 
 
真不希望大家在这种话题上花时间和心思

作者: chubbycat 时间: 7-9-2006 08:48
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
社会不满 has repeatly made derogatory comments on Shanghainess, we'd need to come up with a resolution for this guy

作者: mite 时间: 7-9-2006 12:04
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
1。那个帖子里建议锁的发言不少所以问一下 
 
如果觉得不锁的多数偶没有问题 
 
2。同意楼上

作者: pal2002 时间: 7-9-2006 12:23
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
如果版主们言论上能够保持中立的话，锁不锁倒也无所谓，但是对于个别大家公认的，一贯的歧视主义者，是不是应该有所措施，就象德国现在公开宣扬纳粹是犯法的一样，如果大家认为地域攻击是论坛不能容忍的，那么为什么要让这些筒子一再擾乱秩序呢。 
我说过希望锁这个帖是因为它已经成为了一个新的争端的开始，不是因为说讨论个语言的问题，而是个别筒子恶毒的语言。

作者: cello 时间: 7-9-2006 12:26
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
I prefer this discuss much more than the other posts, if all can discuss or argue like this, noone will worry about deleting anything..

作者: gongxg 时间: 7-9-2006 12:36
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我认为应按锁！在这里互挖“烂脚”，不利健康！同胞们在这看不见各自形象的网络里畅谈，无非是希望了解移民信息而言，扯远了也无谓。管理员认为不利团结就得锁贴，如果有人认确需要去论他人长短，建议还是约一邦哥们聊去吧。

作者: tintin 时间: 7-9-2006 13:37
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
别锁了，起码比mars的垃圾帖好看多了。再说正好暴露一下各色人物的实际内心世界，有些人的发言也真是意想不到。垃圾语言删掉就行了。

作者: gemei 时间: 7-9-2006 14:40
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
喜欢FREEOZ的理由，就是可以在坛子里嬉笑怒骂。在现实生活中要做到如此，可要修行20年。 
 
在坛子里的讨论，大家当不得真。不过是些口头快乐，笔墨官司，行的是泡沫仗义，护的也不过是泡沫尊严。就是立个贞洁牌坊，不过是泡沫牌坊。骂人反映了一种修养，挨骂也是一种修养，各人自有生存之道，用不着如此严肃。官司赢了又没奖章，可交些同道的朋友是最好的不过了。输了过几日再来，面皮薄的换个马甲，厚的继续也没什么尴尬。最最要记得的事，就是当不的真。当真生气气出了“疝气”，FREEOZ即使报销医疗费，开刀受痛的是自己。 
 
大家到此相处，长不过4，5年，短的几个月，大多数在3年左右，政治话题不可谈，想法复杂的，谈些风话雪月，再不也就说说左邻右舍，东长西短，图个开心，有些人不过是现实生活中说不了的，放的坛子上发泄，即使挨骂也高兴，看客不用当真（比如某某星球人）要不乍叫“移友交流”，到“移民申请”好了。 
 
说到地域歧视，只有自己被人歧视过了，才回真正反思自己的歧视行为。很多时候，是通过学习对方来反思的。地域人种，追根到底，大家都是某棵大树下的子孙，南方人看到北方人皮衣棉袄，笑话人土，北方人看到南方人光胳膊光腿，笑话人土，不都是地方气候闹的，换地投胎，一样土。还是那句，坛子里讨论，当不的真。 
 
斑主看不过去的地方，删就删了，盖个章说明一下。喜欢本斑风格的，继续，不喜欢就换场地，香火旺否，是斑竹的选择。还是不当真。

作者: springoz 时间: 7-9-2006 19:48
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
还是别锁那贴子了!言论自由,又不会有网站被封的危险,就让大家直抒胸臆,挺好的! 
就算有些TZ言语过激,可那是真情实感,也是有棱角的表现,只要别太过分,都是值得鼓励的.... 
现实生活不允许人们见面就吵架,也难得有机会面对面地跟别人发表一下自己的内心想法.... 
FREEOZ就应该是一块真正的FREE家园,在这里百花齐放,百家争鸣,又或者,大鸣大放...都无可厚非.林子大了,什么鸟都有,FREEOZ也要有"有容乃大"的气度! 
只要大方向上不出错,小处可以不必计较.... 
争论也好,吵架也罢,挺热闹的,人气高啊! 看看那些点击率高的帖子,无一例外,全是吵架的帖子...呵呵..多热闹啊!..(尤其是FREEOZ近期冉冉升起的那颗"绚烂夺目"的新星MARS!HOHO...<img src="../leadbbsfile/UBBicon/em23.GIF" align=absmiddle border=0>)...要是一碰到吵架的贴子就给锁了,多没劲儿呀! 
所以,恳请大仙千万别锁那贴子了....如果说的太过分,实在看不下去的话,就请大仙和其他几位"德高望重"的斑竹(比如CELLO等)从中斡旋啊!<img src="../leadbbsfile/UBBicon/em18.GIF" align=absmiddle border=0>好好教育教育那些思想不对头的小孩...呵呵...也好给人一个改过自新的机会....<img src="../leadbbsfile/UBBicon/em37.GIF" align=absmiddle border=0> 
总之,删帖子不是最好的办法,口服了,心不服,没用呀! 
当然,如果个别字眼儿实在太过分,就把那几处删了,"盖个章说明一下"<img src="../leadbbsfile/UBBicon/em36.GIF" align=absmiddle border=0>

作者: mite 时间: 7-9-2006 21:03
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
“盖章”没有那么多时间啊又不是不用干活的。 
 
老实说这个帖子我也是一直没有读看到那个题目就感冒。看到有4页了才跳进去看了一下已经空前热闹了。。。

作者: Tangcao 时间: 7-9-2006 22:40
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
千万别锁. 
这个论坛本来就没什么人气.锁这封那的,就会不能把人吸引过来. 
大家都胸怀宽广点吧.

作者: tpsreset 时间: 8-9-2006 03:26
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我觉得挺没意思的，我不继续看下去就是了。 
 
没必要劳烦斑竹上锁吧。

作者: 夏儿 时间: 8-9-2006 10:52
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
别锁呢. .还没看到呢..是已经删了吗..想看看到底是咋评论的...

作者: mite 时间: 8-9-2006 12:02
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
<table width=100% bgcolor=#cccccc cellpadding=5 cellspacing=1 class=TBone><tr><td bgcolor=#f7f7f7 class=TBBG9>暂时锁两天大家都冷静一下。稍后会UNLOCK。 
 
（其实这个帖子应该锁了因为违反论坛大喇叭里要求的不谈地域性歧视话题。这个规定不是偶一个人决定的。老实说靠这样的帖子赚人气，不赚也罢。）</td></tr></table> 
 
 
今天读了几个新的发言感觉好好谈的气氛没有还是“顶牛”。所以暂时锁了。以上是在那个帖子里锁以前的留言。

作者: chubbycat 时间: 8-9-2006 12:21
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
ok

作者: micfox 时间: 8-9-2006 12:29
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
Mite, no offense.. I think some people will start to complain that you deprived their "speech of freedom" very soon ( just some kind reminder so that you can prepare how to handle these people in advance)

作者: mite 时间: 8-9-2006 12:32
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
呵呵。偶知道所以是“暂时”锁。能不删不锁尽量不做。 
不过论坛的规定不希望能地域歧视话题不是偶一个人立的，偶只是造做而已。 
 
在这个论坛里偶又不是没有被骂过。被人骂得狗血喷头都N次了。只有多数兔子理解偶的用意就满足了。 SIGH~

作者: 希曼 时间: 8-9-2006 17:18
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
锁了吧，靠攻击提高人气嘛？ 
 
言论自由不代表攻击自由，那些幼稚的农民意识的地域攻击，是垃圾，删了为妙。可以警告几次，不行就封ID。不要幼稚地以为民主就凌驾于规矩之上了。。

作者: 无极 时间: 8-9-2006 17:40
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
不要锁，应该直接转移或删除

作者: 大山 时间: 8-9-2006 19:28
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
锁。尽量不要删。

作者: micfox 时间: 8-9-2006 20:03
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
不要幼稚地以为民主就凌驾于规矩之上了。。 
 
Really? I figured compassion and democracy can prevail everything as some people suggested?? But please be careful you will be targeted by those so-called "democracy crusader"

作者: 阿兵 时间: 8-9-2006 20:06
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
quite hopeless, this happened at last. Anyway, I gonna say, pls unlock. This is not the theme of freeoz at all. Regardlee of the content, "shut up" should never be an option here! 
 
I still suggest,if you don't like,ignore it please.Why deprive the right of other people, let alone the call for ID block!!Shocking! 
 
It seems some people here were influnced by CPC style a lot, Just wanna say, pls,it is not the style of a free country,NOT AT ALL!!!!

作者: 妮南 时间: 8-9-2006 21:00
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
建议别锁。坦率地说，我不赞成这个贴子里少数人对“上海人”的偏见，但是这仅仅能代表论坛中个别人自己的观点，或许这也会象某些作品一样感染了少数读者对“上海人”的印象观点。但是，尽管多数人没有发表评论，相信论坛中绝大多数人还是有自己主见和立场的、是有辨别是非的能力的，每个人心中都有一个尺度。

作者: 妮南 时间: 8-9-2006 21:19
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
To 希曼，歧视性言论无处不在、也无时不在，关键还是每个人心中都要有一个明辨是非、识别美丑的天平和尺度。个别人发表这种歧视性言论，但是我可以无视它、抵触它。

作者: gemei 时间: 8-9-2006 21:30
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
RONDY：说的好。

作者: 无极 时间: 8-9-2006 21:47
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
to rondy : 
 
个别人是要预谋的，想害死人的，不是什么偏见不偏见(他们不够格) 
。。。。。。 
人能把死的说成活的，把活的讲成死的 
。。。。。。 
任由他人辱骂，自己的麻木会助长这种不良风气 
。。。。。。 
对编造歪曲事实或煽动区域冲突的行为 1.靠板猪管理 2.靠坛友反击

作者: 妮南 时间: 8-9-2006 23:27
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我觉得那只是个别人在论坛中的观点而已，而没有达到“耸人听闻”、想“整人害人”的严重程度。不过，那个贴子我不对胃口没有仔细去研究。 
 
假如如有一位“上海人”当众说了这么一句：“阿拉是上海人，你们都是乡下人。”大家会对此有何观感？其实这也只能表示他这个人自以为是，大家只能对他摇摇头、耸耸肩，一笑了之。 
 
而在某些文章和贴子里，有人却把“上海人”描写成这样的上海人，在我的眼里他们自己就是这样的“上海人”。

作者: 晴天 时间: 9-9-2006 08:44
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
to rondy, 
rondy，你是你，别人是别人，你可以面对一句辱骂或对你有偏见的言论忍气吞声，逆来顺受，不理不睬不等于别人也能，人都是有感情的，喜怒哀乐也需要表达，权且不论诬蔑和稀落别人的人是不是应该得到惩罚（从FreeOz的情况来看是一点都没有），在我看来被诬蔑和稀落的人当然要反击。 
再说这里只存在一个程度问题，如果有人平凡地指着你的鼻子说，你们家的都是......（自己去想一些恶毒的词汇吧），你如果过每次都只是“耸耸肩膀而已”，那我真的要佩服你的忍耐力或者鄙视你的胆量和勇气。别人骂你的家乡只是程度上的不同，如果你热爱你的家乡，你一样会不能接受。

作者: 妮南 时间: 9-9-2006 12:07
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
每个人对一句话或一件事会从不同的角度去理解。楼上有两位误解了我所表达的，不过我不想再表达些什么。 
 
锁与不锁，还是由斑竹自己来决定。

作者: ivymann 时间: 9-9-2006 16:27
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
一直觉得地狱性评论这个尺度很难界定,所以对于这个论坛规定我觉得意义不大, 
谈论地域本身没什么问题.也限制不了. 
.建议去掉这条规定,因为没用,也没道理.只要禁止粗口漫骂,政治话题就可以了

作者: 无极 时间: 9-9-2006 21:44
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
总结： 
 
1.删不删无关紧要，关键是帖子分类管理。比如说痰盂是用来专门供人吐痰的，不是用来放水果的，那水果放哪？放果盆不就行了。 
 
2.哪些帖子需要转移？准确讲有政治敏感性和地域敏感性的帖子就需要转移出一般交流区。 
那什么是地域敏感性？就是那些以偏概全，以个人扩大到整体的攻击，谩骂行为所产生的后果。（敏感度是关键） 
 
3.为什么每个交流区都需要板猪？因为帖子需要人来管理，不能保证人人都是善意的，自觉的以及诚实的。有人喜欢攻击，有人爱反击，也有人选择沉默。 
过度提倡言论自由，只会让更多人不自由。论坛管理员不是只管理论坛服务器电脑问题的系统管理员。 
 
4.为什么我也爱骂人？因为我选择了反击（注意是反击，目前还没主动攻击） 
人不犯我，我不犯人；人若犯我，我必犯人。当然这要看事态的严重度。 
 
。。。。。。。。。 
 
有人说谈中国和澳洲也是地域问题，如何处理？ 
 
对，这是地域问题，但不具有敏感性。打个比方，如果在一个浙江人的区域论坛，大家随意地讲浙江人如何如何，这不具有敏感性；但如果杭州人说宁波人全是XX或宁波人说杭州人全是XX，就有敏感度了。

作者: 阿兵 时间: 9-9-2006 23:30
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
既然对这么多事情都那么敏感，还出来混什么呢？所谓地域性的话题，谁觉得谁说错了，你站出来反击就可以了啊。你觉得你时间宝贵，不屑于和“无聊”的人争论，你大可以诏告天下嘛。想一劳永逸的封了别人的嘴，真的是很不民主的做法。

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 9-9-2006 23:36
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 10-9-2006 00:27
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
Hehe.. it seems my prediction always comes earlier than I expected (When can I get the reward for giving precise prediction?:( )... I hope Mite has prepared well to receive these intensive criticism..

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 10-9-2006 13:14
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: 妮南 时间: 10-9-2006 13:44
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
到此为止吧，否则老麦也要来锁自己的贴子了。<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td><OBJECT codeBase='<a target=_blank href=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab>http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab</a>#version=4,0,2,0' classid='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000' width='48' height='48' Id='Audible79389045876'><PARAM NAME=movie VALUE='../plug-ins/audio/swf/02.swf'><param name=menu value=false><PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high><PARAM NAME=play VALUE=false><param name='wmode' value='transparent'><embed src='../plug-ins/audio/swf/02.swf' quality='high' pluginspage='<a target=_blank href=http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'>http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'</a> type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='48' height='48'></embed></OBJECT></td><td align='left' style='cursor:hand;' title='鼠标悬停播放' nowrap onclick='document.Audible79389045876.Play()'>嘿嘿！逗你玩！</td></tr></table>

作者: pal2002 时间: 10-9-2006 16:04
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
言论自由的讨论见<a target=_blank href=../forum/viewthread.php?tid=677347>../forum/viewthread.php?tid=677347</a>

作者: mite 时间: 10-9-2006 22:58
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
论坛曾经发生的事情好几次由谈什么上海人引起的 
 
有被黑客攻击的如眼镜提的。当时差点论坛瘫痪。有些人站着说话不腰痛。当时的情况很多人记得。 
 
有闹了分裂的。有些当事人现在感到反思，遗憾，甚至后悔。我希望大家吸取教训。不要为了一时口快，一年以后再来说遗憾，后悔。 
 
上海人你看不顺眼不喜欢少来往。你的自由。但是在一个公共论坛里一杠子打到一船人。人为造成论坛的地域矛盾。何苦呢。 
 
我对暂时锁了那个帖子的决定不后悔。况且这个是论坛制定的规则，有了就要执行。有了就说明是当时制定时候的共识。如果不妥将来可以改。目前有就要有。否则大喇叭里通知说了不算还有什么意义。

作者: 阿兵 时间: 10-9-2006 23:38
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
这个正好说明了FREEOZ的号召力强啊。有人分裂了，后悔了，etc......好事啊。如果说，一朝被蛇咬，十年怕井绳，这只会助长歪风邪气。 
知道去年的事情，很多ZHT费了大力气，这个和今天的事情完全是两回事。还是那句话，这个事情，可以民调嘛。规章不对，可以改啊，而且，现在就可以改啊！

作者: mite 时间: 10-9-2006 23:47
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
有人分裂了，后悔了 
 
---》 
 
DO NOT TAKE ME WRONG。 IT IS NOT THE CASE。

作者: 张小麦 时间: 11-9-2006 01:15
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
个人不太喜欢某个版主。 
巴不得老麦受到攻击。不厚道！

作者: 歪歪牛 时间: 11-9-2006 01:24
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
虽然不赞成锁，但老麦的处理事情的方法和态度还是赞成的。锁了就锁了。

作者: thewall 时间: 11-9-2006 02:02
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
。。。MITE 是九袋长老，功力比我高，我听他的。。。

作者: 阿兵 时间: 11-9-2006 09:45
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
take it easy, 
TIME_KILLER, mate!!<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td><OBJECT codeBase='<a target=_blank href=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab>http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab</a>#version=4,0,2,0' classid='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000' width='48' height='48' Id='Audible99349531508'><PARAM NAME=movie VALUE='../plug-ins/audio/swf/01.swf'><param name=menu value=false><PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high><PARAM NAME=play VALUE=false><param name='wmode' value='transparent'><embed src='../plug-ins/audio/swf/01.swf' quality='high' pluginspage='<a target=_blank href=http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'>http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'</a> type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='48' height='48'></embed></OBJECT></td><td align='left' style='cursor:hand;' title='鼠标悬停播放' nowrap onclick='document.Audible99349531508.Play()'>就这事啊！地球人都知道</td></tr></table>

作者: 大山 时间: 11-9-2006 12:39
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
非要说上海人不好或者好然后举出无数例子。证明自己的辩论能力。 
就是不懦弱？就是对论坛的发展CONSTRUCTIVE吗？

作者: 晴天 时间: 11-9-2006 13:04
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
首先，如果你在这个论坛够长，帖子看得够多，也许你会发现我并不热衷于去谈论某某地方人的口碑，我更在意的是不能封别人的口，尤其是不应该为了‘讨好’一部分人而去封另一部分人的嘴。我讲不出那么多国家体制，上层建筑那么‘高级’的东东，我只知道，人应该有说话的权力。这个权力不仅仅是指‘互相吹捧’，也包括讨论批判，发表个人的见解。‘金太阳’不许别人说不同的话，要说只能说‘万寿无疆’，可那是‘流氓国家’。难道大家也希望这个论坛也有个‘主体思想’什么的？ 
 
 
 
。。。没有人要封谁的嘴，如果反驳就是封嘴，那还有谁敢说话，更何况是应邀反驳，这个罪名不小，不过合适的人不多。发表地域偏见的帖子是论坛明文禁止的，删除也是斑竹的权利，如果自己没有发表过类似的话，又何须担心被封嘴。。。 
 
 
 
 
 
 
其次，古人云‘闻过则喜’。退一步说，即使做不到‘有则改之，无则加勉’的话，也不能‘闻过则怒’吧。再退一步说，即使‘闻过则怒’，也不能就此就要封别人的口吧。非要我讲有关上海人，我给出的例子是我亲眼看见的，也是亲耳听到的。如果你非要说那是因为我看到听到都是特例，你可以表述你所见到听到的事实。尽管我不一定就会同意，但至少我不会就此就闹着要封住你的嘴。我觉得那样做太没有‘量’，是小孩子的反应。 
 
 
。。。没有人说你看到和听到的是特例，但这不能翻过来证明你看到和听到的就是真理，更不能因为你看到和听到的几件事，几句话就得出“XX地方人在海外，特别是澳洲，口碑不好”的所谓“事实”。你口口声声有人要封你的嘴，可除了你自己谁又做得到呢？我眼拙，还没找到。。。 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
再次，很多人都认为自己向往‘自由民主’，也觉得自己会‘捍卫真理’。可是应该明白的是无论是自由民主还是捍卫真理都是需要付出勇气和代价的。光说不练那容易，‘英特纳雄纳尔一定会实现’说起来也是慷慨激昂。再者无论是什么信仰应该一视同仁，而不能是打在别人身上说的都可以冠冕堂皇，打在自己身上了马上就变脸。在我看来，那不叫做‘信仰’，那叫做‘投机’或者‘利用’。 
 
 
。。。所以每个人都要从自己做起，怎么要求别人，也必须怎样要求自己。既然要求别人不要存在地域偏见思想，那就应该扪心自问自己的心里有没有偏见。。。 
 
 
 
 
 
 
再次，有朋友说这是为了网站生存，因为不这样就有人要攻击网站。我并不否认这种可能性，但不能同意这种观点。一味地没有原则的退让只能让事情越来越偏离最初的主张，直到成为一个‘懦弱’的四不象。如果希望这样就可以保平安未免太过天真。如果有人想攻击你随便什么理由，甚至没有理由都可以。如果一个人可以根本不顾基本的‘体面’，你躲的了吗？如果美国为了自己不再遭受袭击就去和‘基地’讲和，就放弃反对‘极端’主义，进而就放弃自己的信仰，那么美国也就成为为个‘流氓国家’了。 
 
 
。。。这是管理员的事情了，在下爱莫能助。。。 
 
 
 
 
 
 
最后，关于这个论坛是什么性质，以前说的太多，不愿意再重复了。简单就一句话，我原先怎么认为的，我现在还是怎么认为。至于实际情况如何，问问别人吧？ 
 
 
。。。说得好，实际怎么情况，当然不是一个人的判断就能说得清楚的。。。 
 
 
 
 
 
 
PS。上面的话我并不针对任何一个个人，请千万不要‘对号入座’为好。

作者: 歪歪牛 时间: 11-9-2006 13:30
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
这个坛子的掌舵人（不知道是谁），要考虑，“本论坛的发展方向”，你问题才会消失。 
 
如果只是想维持，想删就删，想锁就锁，因为这里常常有的心态：那里好玩到那里玩去，论不到说话。虽然这种说法，表达了对发表反对意见的一种轻视，但在方法上是可行的。 
 
如果要发展，提高某某某，等等等，各种理由，对论坛有要求，定好了，再来讨论。 
 
看了看，坛子的历史，纷争是因某个话题而起，但分裂是因为“封杀”而成的，一次一次，是封杀导致了分裂。但各位似乎没有意识到。 
 
另外，为什么斑竹门此时此刻不大量灌水，分散大家注意力，开辟新话题呢？

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 11-9-2006 13:31
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: 歪歪牛 时间: 11-9-2006 13:59
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
“我说过，此类贬低上海的帖子，我看到一次就要反击一次。” 
怎么也看不出，一个无赖和绅士打架，绅士维护的是什么尊严，输赢都无益。输了，无赖找到被重视。 
在我看来，绅士维护是无赖的尊严。

作者: micfox 时间: 11-9-2006 14:34
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
。请不要‘断章取意’。我并没有‘提倡’大家去评论哪个地方人，这不值得提倡，这没有问题。但是‘不提倡’的事情并不是说就应该‘禁止’。 
 
First of all, there is rule as below: 
 
发布人： sunnyday 公告时间： 2005-10-16 20:45:06 
基于目前状况，本论坛禁止发表地域性评论帖子。之前的相关评论帖子将被删除。 
 
为保证论坛的稳定健康发展，论坛禁止各种挑衅性言论以及争论。乱世用重典，如有相关违反者，将严肃处理。 
 
特告知！ 
 
感谢大家的合作！ 
So it is obviously prohibited in freeoz (black and white) and this announcement were made long before this accident. But you just ignored it? 
 
 
 
 
只要有一定的底线， 
 
Please define the bottomline and make sure everyone has it (as long as one single person among thousands of users in freeoz does not have bottomline you defined, it is your fault and you should be blamed!!! Can you take this responsibility??)... no personal attack? It is an ideal situation. In fact, there are heaps of them on Freeoz already (the people who did not have the legitimate argument can always attack others, I believe you have experienced this from someone else before)!!! 
 
比如说不骂人，不色情，为什么不能容许人各抒己见？ 
 
3。大家都应该是成年人，没有必要太敏感。看见不好听的言论中有‘上海’两字，马上就跟在后面要锁贴，要删贴。如果不是心虚的原因何必如此？这里说什么，不说什么根本就改变不了真实世界中长久以来形成的事实。再说了，那好听的言论里有‘上海’两字怎么没有人出来说应该换成‘中国’呢？ 
 
4。 ‘反驳’不是‘封嘴’，锁删贴子是。一谈这个，无法避免又扯到这个论坛的历史。我不说了，这里仅存的几个从开始到现在的‘老人’们都应该明白我说的是什么。 
 
Every place has rule and law.. Otherwise it is just chaos.. please check my replies about how the western countries (including US) did on this aspect... 
 
为什么斑竹门此时此刻不大量灌水，分散大家注意力，开辟新话题呢？ 
 
good advice.. I tried that before by arguing the Cantonese topic.. But obviously I just got criticized by some people and no one understand my purpose,.... so why bother do it again? 
 
再次，很多人都认为自己向往‘自由民主’，也觉得自己会‘捍卫真理’。可是应该明白的是无论是自由民主还是捍卫真理都是需要付出勇气和代价的。光说不练那容易，‘英特纳雄纳尔一定会实现’说起来也是慷慨激昂。再者无论是什么信仰应该一视同仁，而不能是打在别人身上说的都可以冠冕堂皇，打在自己身上了马上就变脸。在我看来，那不叫做‘信仰’，那叫做‘投机’或者‘利用’。 
 
One more word, if you are not happy with "freedom of speech" on freeoz, build up BBS by yourself and keep trash talk. No one will mind and you can have plenty of freedoms there..

作者: zlsiva 时间: 11-9-2006 15:22
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我晕。虽然我不打算去看那个具体的帖子，但是我觉得既然freeoz是一个关于oz的移民交流论坛，就应该把主题限定在各个板块的范围内。斑竹的责任就是把不符合的帖子转了封了删了 
 
如果觉得这类帖子不好处置，开一个专版“废水站”之类的地方，把此类帖子一起移入。 
 
讨论什么话题没关系，不要影响其他注册用户看正常帖子。如果有人喜欢讨论额外话题，甚至开一个附属论坛他们慢慢研究去吧。

作者: 大山 时间: 11-9-2006 15:25
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
94啊这个还要讨论 
 
上海人好坏和移民交流有关系吗？转啊

作者: micfox 时间: 11-9-2006 21:23
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
发布人： sunnyday 公告时间： 2005-10-16 20:45:06 
基于目前状况，本论坛禁止发表地域性评论帖子。之前的相关评论帖子将被删除。 
 
为保证论坛的稳定健康发展，论坛禁止各种挑衅性言论以及争论。乱世用重典，如有相关违反者，将严肃处理。 
 
特告知！ 
 
感谢大家的合作！ 
 
论坛的所有，论坛的RULE，要想对这些问题加以评论，你最好了解了解这个论坛以前的事情，否则我说的话你都搞不懂，你说的是哪对哪儿呢？ 
 
I do not know what rule you are talking about. But the above rule is there and you cannnot deny!!! 
 
Again, do not avoid my question, answer the following question directly!!! 
 
Please define the bottomline and make sure everyone has it (as long as one single person among thousands of users in freeoz does not have bottomline you defined, it is your fault and you should be blamed!!! Can you take this responsibility??) 
 
你说别人是TRASH TALK，最好先LOOK AFTER自己的言论，先CLEAN UP自己的TRASH再来指别人。 
 
My talk are all support by truth so be it!! 
especially on the definition of "freedom of speech", check the following links: 
<a target=_blank href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech</a> 
 
and please check what Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights are!!! 
 
also please explain how the following events can happen in western countries!!! 
 
Dr. Elsebeth Baumgartner currently faces up to 109 years in prison in the U.S. state of Ohio for her criticism of, and accusations of corruption against, government officials in Ohio. 
 
In the UK Parliament passed the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act in 2005 banning protest without permit within 1km of Parliament. The first conviction under the Act was in December 2005, when Maya Evans was convicted for reading the names of British soldiers and Iraqi civilians killed in the Iraq War, under the Cenotaph in October, without police permission. [1] 
 
In Italy, media Tycoon Silvio Berlusconi censored the satirical Raiot series by Sabina Guzzanti after the first broadcast on RAI (the state TV), arguing that it was plain vulgarity and disrespectful to the government. As his company Mediaset threatened a lawsuit for €21,000,000, the RAI board of directors, appointed by Berlusconi's political majority, closed the series effective immediately, claiming that such a lawsuit was an economic liability for the company. Ms. Guzzanti went to court and won the case, but the Italian government and RAI refused to follow the court order and the show never went on air again. Berlusconi had previously had two highly esteemed journalists (Michele Santoro and Enzo Biagi) and a comedy actor (Daniele Luttazzi) removed from RAI by saying explicitly, in a press conference in Bulgaria, that the new board of directors, which his majority had just appointed, should not allow their "criminal usage" of television. [2] 
 
In some European countries, holocaust denial is a criminal offence. A prominent proponent of this view, David Irving, was sentenced for 3 years in Austria for denying the holocaust in February, 2006. 
 
In Canada, school teachers have limited freedom of speech, both on and off the job, regarding certain issues (e.g., homosexuality). Chris Kempling was suspended without pay for writing letters, on his own time, to a local newspaper to object to LGBT-related material being introduced into public schools. Kempling pursued the freedom of speech issue all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada without success. 
 
 
On freeoz, you are not qualified to argue because what you said is not supported by any truth (if you think yours is, post your statisitics and source to support your point as I do!!!) 
 
PS: again, do not avoid my questions by giving the personal attack, I would not reply if you did that!!!

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 11-9-2006 21:56
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 11-9-2006 22:05
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
你是不是在偷换概念？你列举的限制，有哪个跟现在所说的是一个范畴，一个程度的？ 
 
‘homosexuality’，‘accusations of corruption’，‘holocaust denial ’？如果你看过的话，请你告诉我哪一个是？ 
 
Ok, what about the example in Britain? 
reading the names of British soldiers and Iraqi civilians killed in the Iraq War!! 
 
我不会回避问题，有的事情我不愿意说明白了是因为说了就无法避免会扯出历史，扯出个人。所以我请你去了解了解，然后再来讨论什么RULE。不好意思的说，讨论那些RULE的时候你可能还不知道这个论坛。 
good execuse... so be it!! 
 
在我看来，BOTTOM LINE是COMMON SENSE。不能谈政治，不能谈色情，,不能谩骂。至于TAKE RESPONSIBILITY，更是无边的话？随便你顶个BOTTOM LINE，你能TAKE RESPONSIBILITY？这不是胡搅吗？ 
Yes, if you know what you are doing is 胡搅...Please check how those people reply in those posts about the comments on some specified group of people, do not tell me those are not 谩骂 (especially 上海人渣多 and 广州人渣多)!!! If you still have the face say these two sentences are not 谩骂, then there is no need to continue!!! 
 
至于TAKE RESPONSIBILITY，更是无边的话？ 
 
You suggested those 谩骂 should not be banned, so you have to take responsibility for them. That is the reason!!!

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 11-9-2006 22:18
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 11-9-2006 22:38
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
那是因为人死了，要维护个人隐私。----这里是点名了，还是死人了？你接着说。(记住自己的话，请不要回避问题。) 
 
Really? please read the context before you reply...Please make sure you understand what "the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act in 2005 banning protest without permit within 1km of Parliament" means.. Is it related to 个人隐私?? 
 
你回贴前看过我前面的帖子吗？我说如果有谩骂，可以清除掉。但是因为麦田里有草，就要把麦田整个都除了吗？这合逻辑吗？ 
your example is not proper.if this post were not locked, more and more 谩骂 would come and the post itself is the source of 谩骂 (even you also admitted it. saying the title of the post is not proper and it is subject to 骂) so the right way to get rid of 谩骂 is to get rid of the source of 谩骂 instead of getting rid of each piece of 谩骂!! (do you know the principle of fighting the illness?) 
 
不要‘断章取意’，需要我说多少遍你才能明白。如果你说我讲过‘谩骂’SHOULD NOT BE BANNED。请把我原贴贴在下面。如果你贴不出：你打不了中文我可以理解，不会读都读不懂吧？ 
 
Ok, then Mite should give you the right to delete 谩骂 and you should always be ready to delete ANY 谩骂 on freeoz (24 hours a day, 7 days a week). If you cannot do it on time, you have to take responsibility for that,can you take this job? If no, please do not complain that much!!

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 11-9-2006 22:50
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 11-9-2006 23:07
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
UB] 你是说这里是‘Parliament'?还是和PARLIAMENT同等意义的地方？即然不回避问题，请你连同上面几个一起解释一下。哪个能套到这个网站上？ 
 
My point in these examples is simple: where there are people's activities, the rule and law is required to protect the place and the entities (Freeoz is an entities full of people's activities). None of activities (including freedom of speech) can break the rules (or law in contries). The law in Britain example is the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act in 2005 banning protest without permit within 1km of Parliament, and the rule in freeoz is 论坛禁止各种挑衅性言论以及争论。乱世用重典，如有相关违反者，将严肃处理。They are the same things and no one is allowed to break them with the execuse of "speech of freedom".. Otherwise, why do we need law and rule? 
 
你觉得要骂人非得跟贴啊？开个新贴很难吗？如果你解决不了这个问题，你锁贴的意义是锁住了谩骂？ 
 
The truth prevails eloquence!! The fact now is that no one kept saying 上海人渣多 and 广州人渣多 by creating a new post when that post is locked!!! So please do not infer the truth!!! 
 
[UB]这不又是胡搅吗？辩论不是狡辩。我不能24X7，你能，还是谁能？你能说不锁贴就得24X7，锁了贴就不用了？ 
 
Of course, the truth now is that no one kept attacking after that post is locked. But before it, heaps of attacks are in that post and you can never tell when those people will launch attacks in freeoz, so if you suggested Mite not lock that post but delete attack replies, then you should do it by yourself on time(the reason why it should be done on time is no one is willing to see those attacks and Freeoz is a polite forum!!).. It is absolutely reasonable since you are the one who propose to do it in this way then you should do it as you propose..What is the reason that you can require others to do the thing you propose?? 
 
你这说的通吗？我请你贴我原贴，请问你找着了吗？ 
No need, I know you are against 谩骂, that is enough..

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 11-9-2006 23:19
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 11-9-2006 23:31
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
你口口声声让我不要回避问题，怎么我提的问题你大多都不直接回应，绕来绕去又绕一圈，黄河源头长江口，一会这儿一会儿那的，真累人。 
 
Ok, my last reply to your question directly.. (obviously you refused to admit you are wrong) 
 
 
 
如果你解决不了这个问题，你锁贴的意义是锁住了谩骂？ 
 
The truth is it does lock 谩骂 and the problem is solved in the persepctive of freeoz!! 
 
你觉得要骂人非得跟贴啊？ 
 
Not necessary, but it did not happen, so it cannot be your argument. 
 
开个新贴很难吗？ 
not difficult, but it did not happen so it cannot be your argument!! 
 
The fact now is that no one kept saying 上海人渣多 and 广州人渣多 by creating a new post when that post is locked!!! So please do not infer the truth!!! 
 
你是说这里是‘Parliament'?还是和PARLIAMENT同等意义的地方？即然不回避问题，请你连同上面几个一起解释一下。哪个能套到这个网站上？ 
Please do not shift concept!!! My point is the rule and law is required to protect the place and the entities Freeoz is simliar to a country in some way. People in countries need to obey the law, the people in freeoz also need to obey the rule of freeoz ,which is 论坛禁止各种挑衅性言论以及争论。乱世用重典，如有相关违反者，将严肃处理!! 
 
这不又是胡搅吗？ 
No, please see the reason in theanswers to your other question!! 
 
辩论不是狡辩。我不能24X7，你能，还是谁能？ 
I cannot either. No one can. 
 
But if you suggested Mite not lock that post but delete attack replies, then you should do it by yourself on time(the reason why it should be done on time is no one is willing to see those attacks and Freeoz is a polite forum!!).. It is absolutely reasonable since you are the one who propose to do it in this way then you should do it as you propose..What is the reason that you can require others to do the thing you propose?? That is the reason why my suggestion is not 
胡搅!!! 
 
你能说不锁贴就得24X7，锁了贴就不用了？ 
No, the truth proves that the locking does work and no one kept attacking others!! 
 
不知道以下的帖子你有没有读过，如果没有建议你先看看。然后再接着黄河源头长江口，如果你愿意的话。 
 
../Announce/Announce.asp?BoardID=304&ID=327909&q=2&r=218257 
 
The above post is the rule to delete the post ,not lock the post.

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 11-9-2006 23:54
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 12-9-2006 01:46
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
1。凡事都有范畴，程度，我问你你举的那几个例子哪个跟这里说的帖子的事儿是一个范畴，一个程度的，你回答了吗？ 
 
You go to school, you have to obey the rule of school, you go to work, you have to obey the rule of company. you live in a country,you have to obey the law of the country. If you hang out in freeoz, you have to obey the rule of freeoz!! That is the same 范畴 the same 程度( the lady in Britain did not obey the law, so she was arrested. Those posts violated the rule of freeoz, so they are locked. That is as simple as the principle that 7 year-old kid can understand( "freedom of speech does not prevail the law and rule, even in western countries!!) so the bottom line is you have to obey the rule, if you did not, you got punished no matter where you are)!! If you do not think so, please give out a country or an entity that does not have any rule, law or regulation!!! Then you can convince people!!! 
 
 
 
2。你认为别人没有接着骂是因为锁贴了，所以不愿意开新贴？ 
 it is because none of people will do the things as you imagine subjectively (who will feel comfortable to attack someone for no reason?) 
 
 
这是不是匪夷所思。如果今天你求了一把雨，明天还真下雨了，你一位这是求雨的法力？ 
 
Hehe.. if you want to refuse the truth, no point to continue..BTW, you can also 求了一把雨 to see whether it really rains if you can!!! you give an excellent example about what 狡辩 is!!! 
 
something irrelated to this topic: your word really make me think of the story I saw in Xi You Ji: some Tiger spirit wants to compete with Sun Wukong. and they both show their power by 求雨. The Tiger 求雨 first, but he did not get anything since the thunder and rain are afraid of Sun Wukong so no one is daring to give the rain. Then when it comes to the turn of Sun Wukong. He did make the rain happen and The tiger spirit argued that it was his power which make it rain and Sun Wukong "happened" to take it up when it comes into effect. What you did is similiar to that Tiger and you just cannot accept your failure on this issue so you just keep making up the ridiculous theory to mask the truth!!! 
 
 
3。你说因为我不主张锁贴，所以骂人的都得由我负责。 
I believe you have said " although I do not agree with what you said, I protect your right to say it at any cost". So 骂人 is one of speech styles you do not agree with and obviously since you have to protect their right at any cost as you say, of course you have to take the responsibility for them AT ANY COST as well (where there is a right , there is obligation. If you had right to protect them, you would have obligation to be responsible for them. It is reasonable) 
 
 
那么上学教了学生知识，将来除了诈骗犯都的学校负责？ 
 
Another example to 狡辩, 
 
First of all, have you got the certificate to be a teacher? If no, then please do not use the irrelevant example to shift the concept because you are not qualified to be a teacher that is why you need to be responsible for it while teacher do not need to (BTW, a qualified teacher will not teach the student to break the law with the execuse of "freedom of speech", so be it)!!! 
 
Second of all, Even you admit you cannot do it (delete the attack post) 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Freeoz is available all the time and no one can know when the attack comes then why would you require others to do the things you cannot do? (Please do not avoid this question!!!) 
 
4。 ‘the rule and law is required to protect the place and the entities’，如果根本不考虑限制的是什么的话， 
 
Yes I agreed.. see my following reply: 
 
你这话‘金太阳’最爱听，而且放哪儿，怎么放都适用，就看自己站哪儿就放哪儿，对吗？ 
 
Firstly, the rule is not made by me so I am afraid you said these to the wrong person because I do not have right to put it wherever I want. Secondly, this rule is passed under all ZHTs!!please ensure this point so stop shifting the concept to "rule is made by some individual"!!! what you said is another word for 狡辩!!! 
 
5。 ‘锁贴’，‘删贴’在这个问题上有本质区别吗？ 
 
Of course ‘锁贴' is different from ‘删贴’: 锁贴': no one can reply but people can still see the content of the post. (as you say, if this problem were not solved, they could keep launching attack by creating new post, but no one did it, which prove your raining theory is 100% wrong!!!) 
删贴: People are not able to see what is the latest reply to the post. The new people did not even know it happened!! 
 
谁说今儿晚上吃饭了，那肯定就是没吃菜，否则必须得说清除吃饭吃菜的区别。-- 这是不是滑稽？ 
 
Yes, it is 滑稽 but obviously you use 100% wrong example to match these two things (one piece of advice to you: before you try to compare things, make sure they have something in common (read my justification on my match below before you comment!!), otherwise, you are making a scene that even a kid can laugh at!!!) 
 
Obviously 吃饭 is coming with 吃菜, but ‘锁贴' is not necessarily coming to 删贴.. One more question for you (do not avoid!!): Is Death Penalty (similar to 删贴 because neither of the targets will exist in the world) the same as detention ( simliar to 锁贴, the targets both have no freedom to continue what they did)??? 
这是不是滑稽？ (do not avoid this, either!!!) 
 
PS: everyone will make mistakes sometimes so it is no big deal you will make mistakes as well.. The point here is you did not realize what you propose is wrong and lack the foundation of "freedom of speech". And you just refuse to admit these so you keep quoting the irrelevant example to shift the concept (do not play this trick in front of me,maybe other people will be confused by your trick so they admired you but I won't).. just admit the truth and stop playing with shifting concept because the more you talked, the more unreasonable you are and it is not good for your personal image...( some sincere advice, but anyway, you will not accept it according to your personality) 
 
 BTW, you have not answered what Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights are... Maybe they are just the "rain" you mentioned and they exist because I talked about "freedom of speech", right?? 
 
also What is the reason (or should I say right?) that you can require others to do the thing you propose?? you have not answered this question ,either 
since you are not teacher (at least in freeoz). 
 
Another word, I really do not have time to continue because the truth is there and if you keep saying it is just some "rain", then there is no point to continue and unless I got paid, otherwise, I would not reply to this post any more because it really waste my time for nothing and made me uncomfortable when I have to argue with the people who do not even know to respect truth.( of course when law and rule are nothing to some people, let alone the basic principle of argument, which is truth)

作者: Ultiblue 时间: 13-9-2006 00:39
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽

作者: micfox 时间: 13-9-2006 11:20
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
1。以前有朋友提醒我要避免和‘黄河源头长江口’的同志辩论，因为无法说清楚。我已经满小心避免了，不想还是躲不了。不过论坛上辩论的最大好处就是‘白纸黑字’，写下的话大家都能看到。你说我‘狡辩’，我不用急着反驳。说的话都在上面，让大家自己看就好。 
 
No.. you just need to answer the questions I raised and be responsible for your words, that is it (黄河源头长江口 are all created by you because you have quoted many irrelevant examples as your arguments)..(obviously you still avoided my question while I did not avoid yours that is the differences between 狡辩 and truth) .. for your convenience, the questions i ask you are listed below: 
 
1. what are Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights? Why are they listed in the definition of "freedom of speech"? 
 
2. If you made the BIG statement ("although I do not agree with what you said, I protect your right to say it at any cost"), can you have some BIG courage to take the responsibilty for whatever you try to protect ( or at least be responsible for what you said)? 
 
3. If you cannot do something (delete the attack post 24x7 because freeoz is open 24x7), what is the reason that you can ask others (like Mite) to do the things you cannot do? 
 
4. when you aregue with someone, are you just good at shifting the concept, avoiding the question and then criticizing your opponents for 黄河源头长江口? 
 
5.When will you respect the truth,admit your mistakes and apologize for what you said? 
 
 
2。你总爱讲这个论坛的规则云云，我还是那个建议，你先搞搞清楚这里3年的历史然后再慷慨激昂比较好。给你个HINT，这里目前了解最多的是MITE，你可以现在咨询一下他。至少你要弄明白这个地方ZHT是什么意思， 
ZHT = zhu tou 
 
那大喇叭又是怎么放上去的等等。 
 
after some incidents (some Chinese city was attacked in Freeoz before so that is how that rule was formed) and the discussions. 
 
Do not try to pretend you know more than I do. Your tone like this really made me sick.. Ok some other questions for you if you want to talk about history of freeoz: 
 
1.When Freeoz was being attacked one year ago, what were you doing at that moment and where were you as board master? I can answer this question for myself first. I was trying to delete those trash post as many as possible.. 
 
2. Who was reboot? why was he not here any more while you still came back ?How was he related to you? 
 
 
3。看到你别的帖子里的跟贴，意思好像是没有CONTRIBUTION就不能发表意见了，言下之意你自己有贡献所以就ENTITLE了。 
 
Please do not infer my meaning especially subjectively!! (see below) 
 
 
我并不觉得非要捐款了，或是担当什么职务了，才能评论。如果是那样的话，朝鲜就不是‘流氓国家’了，论‘贡献’谁能比得上金家父子呢？而且你犯了个忌讳，这话以前有人说过，效果不太好，而且说这话的人恐怕论贡献比你要大很多(这网站是他写的)。 
 
Please do not keep shifting the concept: I never say I have right to change the rule of freeoz. But it does not mean I cannot comment on those (like you) who kept talking about how the rule should change. 
 Some people are trying to mess up the place so that they can have more things to enjoy. So be it.. 
 
4。最后，上网是一种消遣，至少对我来说是。 
 
Finally speak out what is really in your mind.Now I know why you are a active advocator of "freedom of speech": because you just want to have more bickers and hussles in Freeoz so that you can have more fun (at least watching). As to the existence of Freeoz, you never care. 
 
 
弄得PAY不PAY的压力就太大了，不愿意开腔没有人会强迫你。 
 
Yes, I agree.. Tell you the truth, after that post was locked, what you said in this event really made me sick (although I still agreed with you words on some other aspect. That is my bottomline:I will agree with whoever respect and tell the truth) and I have never seen some person (except Prime Minister of Japan , who did not admit the invasion to China in WW2) who did not have any respect to truth. That is why I talked. 
 
当然，我也并不认为有谁会为这种水准的文章付钱，觉得你操心太多了。TAKE IT了EASY。 
the person who has the 水准 as you will never understand.

作者: 青山 时间: 5-10-2006 14:47
标题: Re:要不要锁这个帖子大家说说吧
我觉得有规定，就应该严格执行，论坛顶头挂着不允许地域性的言论。实际执行却不处理。那还不如干脆取消这一个规则。执法必严。如果自己定的规矩都不遵守，那定这些规矩还有什么用？

欢迎光临 FreeOZ论坛 (https://www.freeoz.org/ibbs/)