5月14日马英九接受Time记者专访内容
5月14日马英九接受Time记者专访内容发信站：天益社区（http://bbs.tecn.cn），版面：台海透视
本文链接：http://bbs.tecn.cn/viewthread.php?tid=342399
注：转载。中文仅为参考，原意以Time官方英文为准。此贴仅供参考学习。
马英九：执政周年回顾与反思
Thursday, May. 14, 2009
Sunshined/译
在就职的一年期间，马英九一直履行着自己缓和两岸关系的承诺。北京和台湾已经签订了很多具有历史意义的协议，包括开放直航，允许大陆游客到台湾旅游，逐步加强金融合作等。台湾最近也表示，首次允许大陆向台湾投资。5月12日，TIME杂志的Jim Erickson, Michael Schuman和Natalie Tso与马英九面对面，讨论有关中国，经济和台湾未来的话题。
记者：说说你就职一年来的感想吧。
马：对我们来说，这是艰难的一年。我们在原材料和油价彪高的时候接手，又遭遇了经济危机。为了拯救银行业我们采取了一定的措施，也将遗产税从50%降到了10%。外部对台湾也有影响。目前，我们向市民散发了购物优惠券，这是项非常成功的举措。我们也向公共建设注入了200亿美元的资金。
记者：在处理经济危机方面所花费的精力有没有阻滞你最初的计划？
马：我们当初的目标是，经济增长率达到6%，将失业率维持在3%以下，在四年内人均GDP达到18000$。经济危机让这些目标化为泡影。但是，我们一直在努力复苏经济。路还很长。我们坚信，台湾人民足够坚强勇敢，经济会逐渐好转的。
记者：你们从经济危机中学到了什么？
马：向美国和欧洲出口额的紧缩使我们的经济遭受了严重打击，因为出口额占据我们GDP增长的64%。所以，一个教训是，我们要使出口市场多样化，发掘新兴市场。其次，我们要使出口工业多样化，目前，我们太依赖IT产业。第三，我们为未来设计了几种龙头行业：绿色能源，旅游，生物技术，精制农业和文化创意产业。我们敏锐地意识到，在未来5到10年内，这些产业将是世界上的主要产业。我们不仅要改变经济政策，也要改变政治和安全策略，这也是我改变大陆政策的原因。
记者：你一直在讨论两岸经济合作架构协议（ECFA）。你想通过该协议达成什么？
马：ECFA与一般的自由贸易协议不同。我们想要与大陆商议最为紧迫的议题。比如，石油化学制品，汽车零件和纺织品。这些产品在我们向大陆出口的产品中占了很大比重。从明年开始，相同的产品（东南亚国家）将会免除关税，但是我们的产品将会面临着5%到15%的关税。这对我们的工业来说是致命的。去年，我们已经针对空运、财政监督机制、期货和保险公司方面签署了九项协议（接下来的几个月我们将会继续协商）；而且，在食品安全，邮政协作，司法协助和打击犯罪方面，双方也签订了具有里程碑意义的协议。
记者：台湾人民关心的一个关键问题是，与大陆的经济一体化也就意味着政治一体化。你怎样让他们理解，你能如你所保证的那样，“处理”主权问题，而非解决主权问题？
马：我们自1992年开始就处理主权问题。那时候，大陆表示我们必须遵循一个中国的原则。
我们可以接受一个中国的原则，但是我们的定义与大陆不同。我们接受一个中国的原则，并不只是要取悦他们。
根据我们的宪法，“中国”的政体成立于1946年，在共产党执政三年前。
我们不承认大陆是一个主权国家，就像他们不承认台湾是一个主权国家一样。在法律层面上，我们不承认彼此。但是，我们可以达成互不否认的方针政策。
记者：仍然有一部分人担心你出卖台湾。
马：我们的民意调查证明，大部分人是相信我们的。
记者：但是仍存在一些抗议。
马：是有一些，但并不是人人都有抗议。
记者：有没有举措赢得这些人的支持？
马：我们允许大陆游客来台湾旅游之后，很多人说他们不会来。刚开始，一个月只有几百人。但是，现在每天平均有3000人。很多景点挤满了大陆游客，有些人挥金如土。人们开始逐渐相信让他们来是有利于台湾发展的。另外一个问题是大陆资金。有些人害怕大陆资金将会破坏本土资本市场。但是，我们会调节不同的产业，实现逐步开放。台湾非常依赖于国际贸易和投资，不可能有完全孤立的政策。
记者：你们目前的举措降低了经济危机的影响吗？
马：如果我们没有与大陆开放直航，情况可能会更糟。对生意人来说，降低成本是很重要的。以前，对船运业来说，他们想要把货物运到大陆，必须在冲绳岛停留，并支付5000到10000美元的费用。这样的蠢事我们做了二十多年，那个小岛也获得了暴利，现在，不会了。
记者：军事问题呢？之前你说，如果大陆不撤离针对台湾的导弹你就不用与他们谈判，但是现在你好像松懈了。
马：不，我并没有松懈。我们仍然要求他们撤离导弹。如果双方可以达成和平协议，有关撤离导弹的协议将不同于直航协议。
记者：你希望与大陆展开军事方面的会谈吗？
马：不，我认为那不是眼下最紧急的。
记者：那就是说，今年不会有和平协议？
马：不会，我认为不会。你不知道为什么吗？去年我上任的时候我已经说的很清楚了，我们针对大陆的政策基于以下三个原则：不统一，不独立，不使用武力。不统一的意思是在任期间不与大陆讨论统一问题。第二个不独立。当然，台湾有自主权，因为我们竞选自己的总统，议会，经营我们自己的生意，但是，这里的独立我指的是法律上的独立。我不会那样做，也反对使用武力。
只要不寻求政治独立——那是大陆对我们使用武力的原因——我们将保持现在的政治状态——这是20年来的主要政治观点。这也是我为什么会当选的原因，不像前几任总统，一味寻求政治独立只会给台湾带来很多麻烦。
记者：你认为大陆会强迫你改变现在的政治状态吗？
马：当然，他们希望我们尽快改变。显然，他们认为，在台湾人民眼里，这不是什么大问题。但是，直到现在，我执政一年了，人们仍对大陆存有疑虑。他们担心大陆的生活方式难以被人接受，特别是涉及到民主和自由的时候。现在还不是讨论所谓的“统一”的时候。涉及到安全问题，两年以前，胡锦涛正式提出，双方可以签订和平协议。那时候，我正在竞选总统，并做出了积极回应。但是，我想澄清，那不是关于台湾未来的协议，而只是个安全议题。与统一有关的问题，我在任期间不会触及。
记者：在接下来的一年中，两岸关系将会如何？
马：我们现在已处在正轨上。很多美国专家认为现在是60年来两岸关系最好的时候。中国与华盛顿和台北关系友好，反之亦然。在接下来的一年中，我们当然希望在ECFA上达成一些目标，使两岸关系日趋正常。
其次，我们希望能够避免亚洲区域经济一体化对台湾的排斥。如果能与大陆达成ECFA，我认为，来自贸易伙伴的压力将会降低。很多与我们没有外交关系的国家现在表示，他们感到了些微的放松。既然北京能与台湾改善关系，那么他们也能。台湾不再是东亚的闪点，我们也不希望这样。民意调查显示，大部分人还是支持我们的政策的。但是，我们仍然需要与在野党交流。他们认定我们在出卖台湾，但是，我一直告诉每个人，“听着，我们没有出卖台湾，我只是将台湾的水果卖给了大陆而已。”
Time英文原文：
Taiwan's Ma Reflects on His First Year As President
Thursday, May. 14, 2009
In his first year in office, Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou has kept his promise to ease tensions with the island's longstanding rival, China. Beijing and Taipei have signed several historic agreements opening up direct transport links, allowing mainland Chinese tourists to visit Taiwan, and calling for financial cooperation. Taiwan also recently announced Chinese would be allowed to invest in Taiwan for the first time. On May 12, TIME's Jim Erickson, Michael Schuman and Natalie Tso sat down with Ma to talk with him about China, the economy, and Taiwan's future.
Ma: Well it was a tough year for us. When we first took office we were faced with high prices of raw materials and oil, followed by the financial tsunami and economic downturn. We took measures to rescue the banking industry. We also reduced the inheritance tax from 50% to 10%. That has had an affect on Taiwanese capital outside of Taiwan. In recent months, that capital has been coming back. We also distributed shopping vouchers to our citizens. That was a very successful program. We also will inject about $20 billion for public construction. (Read TIME's interview with Ma after his election in 2008.)
T: Has the amount of attention spent dealing with the crisis set back initiatives you wanted to take the first year?
M: We wanted to see a growth rate of 6%, keep the unemployment rate below 3%, and boost annual per capita GDP to $18,000 within four years. The economic crisis disrupted all of these goals. But we continue to work to revitalize the economy. We still have a long way to go. But that's OK, because we believe the Taiwanese have the perseverance and work ethic to make the economy come back.
T: What kind of lessons have you learned from the crisis?
M: We were hard hit by the shrinkage of the export market in the U.S. and Europe, because exports account for 64% of our GDP growth. So one lesson we learned is we should diversify our export markets — we need to look to emerging markets and oil-producing countries. Secondly, we should diversify our export industries — we depend so much on IT industries. Third, we have designated six industries as future flagship industries: green energy, tourism, biotechnology, refined agriculture, and the cultural and creative industries. We are keenly aware these industries in 5 to 10 years will be the major industries of the world. Not only do we have to revise our economic policy, but also our political and security policy, so that is why I started to reform our China policy.
T: You have been talking about an Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement (ECFA) with China. What do you want to achieve with that?
M: The ECFA will be different from a normal free-trade agreement. It will take the form of a framework that will identify the types of items we will negotiate over time. We want to negotiate with the mainland about some of the products we consider most urgent. For instance, pertrochemicals, auto parts, textiles, these products constitute a large percentage of our exports to the mainland. Beginning next year, the same products from (Southeast Asian countries) will have no tariffs, but ours will face tariff rates from 5% to 15%. That will kill our industries. The mainland has already indicated interest in signing an agreement with us. In the last year we've signed nine agreements focusing on air transport; a financial supervisory mechanism covering stocks, futures and insurance companies, which will be negotiated in the next couple of months; also food safety, postal cooperation, a joint effort to combat crime and judicial assistance. These are all milestone agreements. (Read about new business deals between China and Taiwan.)
T: There's a substantial part of the Taiwanese population that is concerned economic integration with China will mean political integration. How can you help them understand that you can, as you have said in the past, "manage" the sovereignty issue, without actually settling it?
M: We started to manage the sovereignty issue as early as 1992. At the time, China said we have to observe the One-China principle. We said we can accept the One-China principle but our definition is different from yours. We accept that principle not because we want to please them, but this is what our constitution says, and our constitution was adopted in 1946, three years before the Chinese communists came into power...we don't recognize the mainland as a nation nor do they recognize (Taiwan) as a nation. So what I have called for is that we continue to have mutual non-recognition. We cannot recognize each other on the legal level. But we could have a policy of non-denial on the de facto level.
T: There's still a percentage of population of fearful that you're selling Taiwan out.
M: We conduct opinion polls to see whether they trust us and the majority does.
T: But there are still fierce protests.
M: Some, but not everyone.
T: Is there progress in winning some of them over?
M: Look at what happened when we allowed mainland tourists to come to Taiwan last year. Opponents said they wouldn't come. In the beginning, only a few hundred came a month, but now we have about 3,000 daily. Many of our attractions are crowded with mainland tourists, and some are big spenders. People generally believe that this is in our interest to have them here. The other thing is mainland capital. Of course there are people who fear mainland capital will ruin our capital market but we'll regulate the different industries, so we bit by bit. Taiwan is a country that depends so much on international trade and investment, you can't really have an isolationist policy.
T: Do you think the steps you've taken have helped reduce the impact of the economic crisis?
M: If we had not done things like opening up direct transportation links to the mainland, we'd suffer more. Cost reduction is very important for businessmen. For the shipping industry, they had to move goods to China by stopping over in a tiny town in Okinawa and paying $5,000 to $10,000 to get a chop to say they've been though a third place. We've done this stupid thing for more than 20 years, and that little town has got a windfall, but now it's changed.
T: Where are you on the military issue? You have previously said you could not negotiate with China until they removed their missiles , but you seem to have relaxed that.
M: No, I haven't relaxed that. We still want them to remove the missiles. But if the two sides are to negotiate a peace agreement, the requirement on the removal of missiles obviously should not apply to the negotiations for cross-strait flights.
T: Do you hope to have talks with China about the military?
M: No, I don't think that's very urgent.
T: So no peace agreement this year?
M: No, I don't think so, do you know why? We have already made it very clear last year when I took office, that I'll have a mainland policy, which is under the framework of our constitution and which is based on three principles: no unification, no independence, and no use of force. By no unification I mean no unification talks with the mainland during my term. The second is no independence. Of course Taiwan has autonomy because we elect our own president, parliament and run our own business, but the independence I talk about is de jure independence. I won't do that, and we oppose the use of force.
The reason is to assure the other side, as long as we're not taking a policy to pursue de jure independence – that's a reason for the mainland to use force against us – we will maintain the status quo, which reflects what the mainstream public opinion has been for more than 20 years. That is one of the reasons I was elected last year, unlike my predecessor who opted for a pro-independence policy which caused Taiwan a lot of trouble.
T: Do you think China will pressure you to change the political status quo?
M: Of course they hope we'll do it faster. Obviously they understand it is not a very urgent issue in the eyes of the Taiwanese people. You see, up to now, only one year into my presidency, people still have a lot of doubts about China. They fear their way of life is not something can accept, particularly in terms of freedom and democracy, so obviously the time has not come for the two sides to negotiate something called unification. But on the issue of security, two years ago, Hu Jintao formally extended an offer to Taiwan, that we should sign a peace agreement. At the time, I was running for president, and I responded positively. But I think that we want to make it clear this is not an agreement on Taiwan's future buy rather it is a security issue. Taiwan's future is related to unification and I made it very clear that I won't touch that issue during my presidency.
T: How would you like China relations to progress in the next year?
M: We're now on the right track. Many American experts on China relations say relations between China and Taiwan are the best in 60 years. China can have a friendly relationship with Washington and Taipei and vice versa. A year from now, we certainly hope to achieve something on the ECFA issue and further normalize our relations with the mainland.
Secondly we hope we can avoid the marginalization of Taiwan as a result of regional economic integration in Asia. If we are able to have the ECFA with China, I think the pressure on our trading partners will be reduced. Many countries with whom we don't have diplomatic ties come to us now and say they feel a bit relieved, that if Beijing is ready to improve relations with you, why can't we? Taiwan is no longer a flashpoint in East Asia, and that's what we want. Opinion polls show the majority, sometimes a great majority, support our policies, but we still need to talk to our opposition. They always believe we are selling out Taiwan, but I keep telling everyone, "Listen, we're not selling out Taiwan, the only thing I sell out is Taiwan's fruit to the mainland."
[ 本帖最后由 richard711 于 2009-5-20 02:25 编辑 ]
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