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标题: 请问ACS评估可以找比自己职位高的同事就可以吗？还需要公证吗？ [打印本页]

作者: gaoll82t 时间: 3-2-2010 01:57
标题: 请问ACS评估可以找比自己职位高的同事就可以吗？还需要公证吗？
想找同一个组的一个同事，而非老板来做推荐，因为同事技术上懂得多，被调都不怕。也不想让老板知道。
但是看到ACS guideline上面说好像要statutory declaration, 是不是需要写了然后公证一下啊。而且还说需要同事老板- 也就是我老板签字的organization chart。
有没有TX也是同事推荐的，是需要这么麻烦吗？还是签个字就可以了，也不要公证，也不要声明？

1.4. You may submit a reference from your colleague who occupies or has occupied a higher position than you, within the organisation you were employed at, on a properly signed and witnessed Statutory Declaration. The Statutory Declaration is to detail as a minimum:

 the reason/s why your colleague is submitting a Statutory Declaration and
 all the necessary detail about your employment experience.

Important: If you provide a Statutory Declaration with your application, you must also provide some form of corroborative information from a third party for the claims made in the Statutory Declaration.

In this case, you must provide an organisation chart showing upward and downward reporting relationships. All titles must be included. The organisation chart must be verified by your colleague’s immediate supervisor. A company seal is not sufficient, the document must be signed.

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 10:38
顶，同问。

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 10:42
这个是关于 Statutory declarations
A statutory declaration is a written statement declared to be true in the presence of an authorised witness. A person wishing to use a statutory declaration in connection with a law of the Commonwealth, the Australian Capital Territory or certain other Territories must make the declaration in accordance with the Statutory Declarations Act 1959 (the Act) and the Statutory Declarations Regulations 1993 (the Regulations).

Under the Act a person who wilfully makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence and may be fined or jailed, or both.

The Act provides that a statutory declaration must be in the prescribed form and must be made before a prescribed witness. The form for making a statutory declaration and the persons who can witness a statutory declaration are prescribed under the Regulations. The form and a list of persons before whom a statutory declaration may be witnessed can be accessed using the links to the right of this page.

The form must be used for all matters arising under a law of the Commonwealth, the Australian Capital Territory or certain other Territories. A statutory declaration may be invalid if it is made using an incorrect form, is witnessed by a person not prescribed by the Regulations as an authorised witness, or if it is incomplete.

An information sheet for persons making a statutory declaration and for witnesses can also be accessed from the link to the left of this page should you require further information.

A printed version of the form is available in commercial quantities from:

CanPrint Communications
PO Box 7456
Canberra Mail Centre ACT 2610
Tel: 1300 889 873
Email: sales@infoservices.com.au

Persons wishing to make a statutory declaration in relation to a matter under a State law will need to check the procedures for making and witnessing declarations with the relevant State Department of Justice or State Attorney-General's Department.

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 10:44
Statutory declaration
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A statutory declaration is a legal document defined under the law of certain Commonwealth nations. It is similar to a statement made under oath, however, it is not sworn.

Statutory declarations are commonly used to allow a person to affirm something to be true for the purposes of satisfying some legal requirement or regulation when no other evidence is available. They are thus similar to affidavits (which are made on oath).

Depending on jurisdiction, statutory declarations can be used for:

Declarations of identity, nationality, marital status, etc. when documentary evidence is unavailable.
Declaring the intention to change one's name.
Affirming the provenance and nature of goods for export or import.
Statements of originality for patent applications.
[edit] Australia
Australian law defines a statutory declaration as a written statement declared to be true in the presence of an authorised witness. The Statutory Declarations Act 1959 governs the use of statutory declarations in matters involving the law of the Australian Commonwealth, Australian Capital Territory, and other territories but not including the Northern Territory.

Any person within the jurisdiction of this law may make a statutory declaration in relation to any matter. The declaration may be used in connection with matters of law, including judicial proceedings, but what weight is given to the declaration is a matter for the judge to decide.

Statutory declarations must be made in a prescribed form and witnessed by a person as specified in the Statutory Declarations Regulations (1993). Prescribed witnesses include legal and medical practitioners, Justices of the Peace, notary publics, police officers, military officers, registered members of certain professional organisations (i.e. National Tax Accountant's Association and Institution of Engineers Australia), and certain other Commonwealth employees.

Intentionally making a false statement as a statutory declaration is a crime equivalent to perjury, and punishable by fines and/or a prison sentence of up to 4 years.

The States of Australia each have their own laws regarding statutory declarations.

[edit] United Kingdom
Statutory declarations can be used as a method of legally changing one's name.

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 10:45
貌似Statutory declaration是澳大利亚、英国法律下的，咱们国家没这个东东啊

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 11:47
我昨天发信问了ACS：
Dear Sir/Madame I've read your new guidlines. And I have some questions about the employer reference. "Statements must be dated, signed by your employer or a person authorised by your employer". What do you mean by "a person authorised by my employer". Could I ask my collegues who have occupied position that is in the same level as mine to sign the reference letter for me? Hope to hear from you soon!

今天早上收到回信如下：
Your letter will need to be signed by the author of the reference. This person should be a Manager or someone who holds a position higher than yourself.

For more details about our process, please visit http://www.acs.org.au/index.cfm?action=show&conID=pasa <http://www.acs.org.au/skills>

Regards,
Skills Assessment Support Officer
assessment@acs.org.au

他也没说得太具体，没说如果是后一种情况someone who holds a position higher than yourself，要不要Statutory Declaration，谁有兴趣继续发信问问哦。

作者: gaoll82t 时间: 3-2-2010 11:54
我也来发信问问。等有结果贴上来。

不过也有另外的打算，实在不行，就让老板写reference letter，但是具体的项目相关的，还是写在resume里面，reference letter就写大面上的职责。再提供一个同事的联系方式，如果他想问technical相关的，问同事好了。

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 11:58
呵呵，真麻烦，真该早点提交，但是我的工作年限才刚刚满足要求。

作者: gaoll82t 时间: 3-2-2010 15:19
收到如下回信：
A Statutory Declaration only needs to be provided when a reference from your employer cannot be provided.

说了跟没有说一样。
不过看来最好还是老板写吧。

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 15:30

原帖由 gaoll82t 于 3-2-2010 16:19 发表

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收到如下回信：
A Statutory Declaration only needs to be provided when a reference from your employer cannot be provided.

说了跟没有说一样。
不过看来最好还是老板写吧。

就是，说了跟没说一样。

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 15:31
而且，employer到底是啥概念，你的部门经理，公司的总经理？

作者: Harry_chu 时间: 3-2-2010 16:17
EMPLOYER means your company

作者: lwb1123 时间: 3-2-2010 16:33
Statutory Declaration是怎么个声明法？就说本人保证以上推荐信内容完全属实，如有不实情况愿意承担相应的法律责任？

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 16:36

原帖由 Harry_chu 于 3-2-2010 17:17 发表

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EMPLOYER means your company

company又不是人，总得有个人来代表吧，如果我写个程序让company自动签字就好了。

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 16:37

原帖由 lwb1123 于 3-2-2010 17:33 发表

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Statutory Declaration是怎么个声明法？就说本人保证以上推荐信内容完全属实，如有不实情况愿意承担相应的法律责任？

in the presence of an authorised witness

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 16:56
This person should be a Manager or someone who holds a position higher than yourself, 都可以算作employer吗？

作者: lavahx 时间: 3-2-2010 17:10
哪来那么多麻烦，同级或比你高的人签就可以，不用公证，看我的签名档，俺都做2次，每次5封推荐信，没有一个是manager签的

作者: 风再起时1204 时间: 3-2-2010 17:21
是不是一定要在职的同事啊，已经离职的可以吗？

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 17:31

原帖由 lavahx 于 3-2-2010 18:10 发表

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哪来那么多麻烦，同级或比你高的人签就可以，不用公证，看我的签名档，俺都做2次，每次5封推荐信，没有一个是manager签的

以前确实是这样的，但是现在有new guideline了，不知道还行不行。

作者: lwb1123 时间: 3-2-2010 20:04
Important: If you provide a Statutory Declaration with your application, you must also provide some form of corroborative information from a third party for the claims made in the Statutory Declaration. 这个第三方也不知道是什么样的第三方。。。

In this case, you must provide an organisation chart showing upward and downward reporting relationships. All titles must be included. The organisation chart must be verified by your colleague’s immediate supervisor. A company seal is not sufficient, the document must be signed.写推荐信同事的 immediate supervisor也需要签字？

ACS越来越烦了～

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 20:08

原帖由 lwb1123 于 3-2-2010 21:04 发表

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Important: If you provide a Statutory Declaration with your application, you must also provide some form of corroborative information from a third party for the claims made in the Statutory Declaratio ...

如果我那个同事跟我一个部门的，那岂不是又要找我们经理，那还不如一开始就让经理签了得了，感觉纯粹是折腾人。

作者: tototo 时间: 3-2-2010 20:12
27. I cannot provide a reference. Will you accept anything else?

In this case you should provide a Statutory Declaration claiming the reasons why you cannot provide a reference and explaining in complete detail what you did in this position.

This must be supported by HR Style references, recommendations from colleagues (with business cards attached), job contracts, pay slips and other relevant information that demonstrates employment.

Please note the assessor is under no obligation to accept this and you submit this at your own risk. Please note there are heavy consequences for those who submit a fraudulent statutory declaration.

这个是FAQ里的，难道third-party confirmation 指的是job contracts, pay slips and other relevant information that demonstrates employment.

作者: gaoll82t 时间: 3-2-2010 23:01
我从网上找了一个以前移民的前辈问了一下，他倒是写了statutory declaration，不过看来他是在澳大利亚工作过。
就是自己写一个声明，说写推荐信的同事跟自己是在某一段时间之内一起工作过的，最后底下有律师solicitor的签字。不知道中国什么部门做这个呢。
如果是这么要求了，应该是需要的了。所以还是找老板签字看起来要省事了。

作者: dongbotang 时间: 3-2-2010 23:42

原帖由 tototo 于 2010-2-3 21:08 发表

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如果我那个同事跟我一个部门的，那岂不是又要找我们经理，那还不如一开始就让经理签了得了，感觉纯粹是折腾人。

我理解如果你一开始就找经理签那么还得找你经理的经理我是打算先找资深同事签然后再找经理签不然经理的经理咱也不熟悉啊这事一闹真是大了走不走都得穿小鞋了国内这些企业...

作者: lwb1123 时间: 4-2-2010 00:28

原帖由 dongbotang 于 4-2-2010 00:42 发表

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我理解如果你一开始就找经理签那么还得找你经理的经理我是打算先找资深同事签然后再找经理签不然经理的经理咱也不熟悉啊这事一闹真是大了走不走都得穿小鞋了国内这些企业...

估计澳洲那边小企业多，找employer签字方便，国内的企业动不动就是几千几万人，找employer签字人家理都不理你的。。

作者: lwb1123 时间: 4-2-2010 00:46
找到点有用的信息，跟大家分享一下：

无法获得雇主证明信的解决方案BigBird 发表于 2009-11-27 15:00 | 来源： | 阅读 27 views
如果你在澳洲你的原公司倒闭了无法跟你的上司取得联系

如果你在中国你的原公司倒闭了无法跟你的上司取得联系或者你还在工作不想你现在的上司过早知道你要移民澳洲 (在中国有一定条件限制见下文)

你可以填写一份 Statutory Declaration (下载地址)

声明中需要用英文填写你的姓名地址职业递交这份声明的原因已经详细的声明内容(比如你的工作时间工作内容)

同时还要在一个符合要求的鉴定人面前签字最后此鉴定人也要在声明上签字并注明姓名地址职业等信息

在澳洲可以找一个JP或其他类别的人见上文中下载表格的第二页
在中国找这样的人比较困难可能需要到使馆找相关工作人员鉴定
注意这份表格有法律效力请如实填写一旦发现作假就违反了澳洲法律 ACT 1959

此外没有合适的理由对于第三点不想上司太早知道能不用这个不要用

作者: tototo 时间: 4-2-2010 10:49

原帖由 lwb1123 于 4-2-2010 01:46 发表

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找到点有用的信息，跟大家分享一下：

无法获得雇主证明信的解决方案BigBird 发表于 2009-11-27 15:00 | 来源： | 阅读 27 views
如果你在澳洲你的原公司倒闭了无法跟你的上司取得联系

如果你在中国你的原 ...

这个帖子的原贴在哪里？看起来是去年11月的，还没有这些要求呢吧

作者: tototo 时间: 4-2-2010 11:22
我在网上找到了一个statutory declaration的例子[attach]100160[/attach]

作者: lwb1123 时间: 4-2-2010 11:46

原帖由 tototo 于 4-2-2010 11:49 发表

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这个帖子的原贴在哪里？看起来是去年11月的，还没有这些要求呢吧

http://abigbird.com/2009/11/%E5% ... %E4%BD%A0%E7%A7%BB/

作者: hetty1006 时间: 4-2-2010 12:42
lz的雅思考的好早啊
加油！

作者: tototo 时间: 4-2-2010 17:26
http://www.freeoz.org/bbs/thread ... page%3D1&page=1
看来这个statutory declaration 以前也要求过

作者: run2you 时间: 6-2-2010 17:59
郁闷了开始，刚刚准备好所有的准备今天发了，上来仔细一看才发现原来准备的东西部分不符合要求了。

新guide里还有一句是关于 Thesis abstract (for PhD, Doctoral and Masters by research awards) endorsed by primary supervisor, where possible. When you provide a certified copy of the thesis abstract, the name of the university and the date of the thesis publication must appear on every page.

难不成硕士还得提交论文的摘要的公证？太BT了吧

作者: tototo 时间: 6-2-2010 19:11

原帖由 run2you 于 6-2-2010 18:59 发表

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郁闷了开始，刚刚准备好所有的准备今天发了，上来仔细一看才发现原来准备的东西部分不符合要求了。

新guide里还有一句是关于 Thesis abstract (for PhD, Doctoral and Masters by research awards) endor ...

我也正研究这个呢。不过先等新政策出来吧,说不定就不用交申请了.

作者: zhaojienju 时间: 18-2-2010 17:45
我理解这个thesis abstract只要supervisor签字就可以了。supervisor是eligible来certify的。

作者: tototo 时间: 19-2-2010 01:43

原帖由 run2you 于 6-2-2010 18:59 发表

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郁闷了开始，刚刚准备好所有的准备今天发了，上来仔细一看才发现原来准备的东西部分不符合要求了。

新guide里还有一句是关于 Thesis abstract (for PhD, Doctoral and Masters by research awards) endor ...

the date of the thesis publication 怎么理解,毕业论文并没有被发表啊? 是打印的日期吗?

作者: zhaojienju 时间: 3-3-2010 00:20
这个鬼Statutory declarations到底有没有人在中国做过啊。感觉极其麻烦啊。还要找一个witness的人。以前难道就没有要求吗？
是不是不做Statutory declarations其实也ok, ACS是不是很严格的要求这个东西？
有哪位懂的大侠出来吱一声啊。

作者: zhaojienju 时间: 3-3-2010 00:22

原帖由 tototo 于 19-2-2010 02:43 发表

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the date of the thesis publication 怎么理解,毕业论文并没有被发表啊? 是打印的日期吗?

publication也不一定是在杂志上发表啊。

就是你写完了，上交了，通过了，应该就算是publish了。

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